2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

MARK HAYES (00:01.518)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting edition of Two Men in Black and White, an Honest Conversation. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're welcoming back Brock and Ellis after a couple of days off. Good to see you, my friend. We sent out prayers to you and your family. And we're glad you're back here. Absolutely, absolutely. We've known each other for many, many years. you know, I mean, that's the least I could do.

BROCK GANELES (00:19.791)
Thank you, much appreciated Mark.

MARK HAYES (00:32.472)
Yeah, it's never easy losing a loved one. And we could touch on it a little bit at the end of the show. In the meantime, let's get right into it. The democracy continues to decay. This President Trump continues to try to drag us into, I guess we could call it moral decay, because as long as the Epstein files are around Brock, we are in moral decay.

The GOP now stands for guardians of pedophiles. I mean, what else could it be? And then whenever the Epstein files start getting some attention, here we go with the wag the dog situation, right? And this time he's gone too fucking far. This racist meme of President and Michelle Obama.

Is more disgusting and I don't give a fuck who posted it It's on your true social account Mr fucking fake ass stolen election president Brock what say you about the racist meme scandal?

BROCK GANELES (01:52.067)
So many aspects to it are just the degradation of America and Trump's attempt because he feels his support slipping away. The need to really play to the base, the base at worst instincts of his followers to keep them in the boat, to remind them quote, he's one of them and it's us versus them.

So he went out to the extreme. Everything about the explanation was false and bullshit. And then to the quote where, you know, obviously he could never apologize or admit any fault. So to say that he hadn't made a mistake, but then to follow that with, but he hadn't looked at the whole thing. So that made it okay, but

MARK HAYES (02:27.298)
Yup. Yup.

MARK HAYES (02:44.119)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (02:47.695)
you basically then just defined what a mistake is. like the comments didn't come together and Carolyn Levitt trying to explain it away was embarrassing. So he's just, you know, I guess there was a bunch of people in Maggalan who enjoyed it and everyone else in America was just like, this is just disgusting. It's not.

where we need to be going. you know, it is kind of who we are, a portion of us is so, but even some Republicans couldn't stomach this one, right? Tim Scott had to say something. It was too much for Tim Scott, among others, not enough others. It should have been a hundred percent roundly, you know, criticized, but some of them are so wimpy and soft in Trump's pocket that they can't even criticize this.

MARK HAYES (03:29.354)
Right. Should have been all the oven.

dry.

BROCK GANELES (03:41.317)
But yeah, think he is now on the head. The Epstein files were bubbling up. Trump needed something to get us talking about something else. And racism is his his first and easiest diversion. And this was just a really, you know, bad and disgusting and in the end embarrassing one for him. And I don't think it's going to last.

MARK HAYES (03:56.887)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (04:09.315)
I don't think it gained him any additional supporters and I think it was a losing play in what is now a downward cycle for him and he's scrambling to get approval again, to be liked again by more people and he just doesn't know how to do it because he's a horrendous person.

MARK HAYES (04:26.454)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah, and you know, he's in such mental decline. You know, I don't think there's, I don't think he really fully understands the magnitude of what he did because he's in such bad shape mentally and can't process anything. I mean, he can't even keep a sentence together anymore. He's all over the fucking place if you watch him.

You know, he's talking about sitting on Air Force One looking out the window watching out for the missiles and the enemies. What the fuck are you talking about? What missiles? What enemies? Have people been shooting at Air Force One and we just missed it? I mean, they carry a press pool, so you would think they could look out the window as well. Missiles were actually flying by. So, you know, like at what point do we demand change?

You know, the Congressional Black Caucus is livid, demanded an apology, of course, he doesn't care. No, and he wants to... He doesn't want to reach across the aisle. He doesn't want to work with anyone else. And what I don't understand is how is this party having... How is MAGA winning with such a small sliver of America on board with this shit? Right?

BROCK GANELES (05:33.403)
Yeah, you can make it now.

MARK HAYES (05:56.846)
It's only, it's gotta be less than 30%. Say, yeah, you know, a racist meme of President Michelle Obama in the jungle pictured as apes has to be out of bounds.

BROCK GANELES (06:02.341)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (06:15.227)
I mean, we gave him all the levers of power, even as like a minority party, right? Then the Senate, somehow, you know, that Republicans in Congress usually still vote in lockstep and pass shit. Obviously the Supreme Court is so far right there as racist as fucking Trump is. So that's how it's happened. It's really like how do we unwind it? You know, or maybe we've started to little by little, but we got to go hard at.

MARK HAYES (06:31.598)
Right. Right.

BROCK GANELES (06:43.301)
these, I think it's the congressmen are the most vulnerable. So many of them are resigning, right? Another couple Republican congressmen, I guess they did not resigning, but they're announcing that they're not running, right? Cause they know they can't win. They don't want to put themselves through it, but they don't have the moral fortitude to actually go against Trump in the interim. Maybe we'll get a handful of them. It's only going to take two or three.

MARK HAYES (06:54.508)
Not gonna run again. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (07:02.925)
Right.

MARK HAYES (07:06.798)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (07:11.641)
Right? If I see Mike fucking Waller go out and say more shit, mean, he said something against Trump, but he'll never vote the other way. He'll he'll he's trying to have it both ways. He's like to me, the poster child that I follow of that classic spineless Republican who will give lip service, but never act in a way that diminishes Trump's power. I mean, you know, maybe if we just keep putting more pressure on him.

MARK HAYES (07:37.57)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (07:40.855)
shouting the down-to-town halls that a few of them will crack and Congress maybe puts a little bit of a check on what they know is the Mad King. We'll touch on this a little later, but like when you're around dementia, you just know it. you know, the people around Trump absolutely know that he's in severe mental decline and does not have a grasp on reality.

MARK HAYES (07:58.698)
Right. Jumps out.

BROCK GANELES (08:10.273)
and they're trying to hide it so they can get their agenda pushed forward or they can keep their power. But it's clearingly obvious.

MARK HAYES (08:18.806)
Right. Right, no doubt. The funniest thing I saw was Tim Scott, right? The only black Republican senator writing on his social media, praying it was fake because it's the most racist thing I've seen out of this White House. The president should remove it. And then Tim Ricketts, or Pete Ricketts, rather, from Nebraska wrote, the White House,

here it is, even if it was a Lion King meme, a reasonable person sees the racist context to this. You think? You think?

BROCK GANELES (08:56.507)
The fucking Lion King argument is a fraud. But the Tim Scott comment, I hadn't seen it. It just strikes me as funny as soon as I hear it. It's like, he's doing the thoughts and prayers on the comment. Like, just, I'm praying. I'm praying, you know, like, come on. Just live in the real world, Tim. Stop praying. And just...

MARK HAYES (08:59.859)
it's borderline racist itself.

MARK HAYES (09:10.582)
Right.

MARK HAYES (09:20.013)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (09:22.159)
just go with the rest of the sentence. It's the most racist thing you've ever seen. And by the way, Tim, that's your fucking team. You've dedicated your life to service for that man's agenda. What the fuck are you doing? Why? Why?

MARK HAYES (09:36.294)
Yep, Right, right. Right, to take away your sister's rights, your mother's rights. Your extended family is hurting because they're black in America and you're doing everything you can in Trump's agenda to help.

just destroy the black experience in America. How do you look yourself in the face and say, yes, I'm doing what's right when he puts out this kind of shit? Black MAGA, how do you explain it, Black MAGA? Terrence K. Williams, one of the biggest jackasses on the Black MAGA patrol, said, this is just hypocrisy.

You know, where, this is fake outrage. You know, where are they when the ice, when the leftists in Minnesota are calling ICE agents the N-word? Really? That's your defense for this racist shit from this racist president? You still can't see it. It's a, Black Maga to me is the most disgusting, Black Maga, right, is the people that said, hey, there's free food on the boat when they were picking up slaves.

Free food on the boat, come get some. Actually, the joke is, it's fried chicken on the boat. That was the joke when I first heard it. It's just disgusting. And that's who Black Maga is. The turncoats, the people who sold their people out.

BROCK GANELES (11:17.883)
Hmm.

BROCK GANELES (11:23.323)
But if Tim Scott voted against Trump just once in the Senate, he'd be on the next meme. He'd be on the next racist meme. His head would be on one of those things. He's that. He's one vote away from the N-word from Trump, right? That's how tenuous his position is. Why does he want to be there? He's not in the club. He's just being used and, you know.

MARK HAYES (11:33.408)
yeah. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (11:48.63)
Nope. He's a pawn.

BROCK GANELES (11:51.963)
Yeah, he's a pawn in a white supremacy game. So yeah, I mean, that was disgusting. I think I do think in the end it's hurt Trump. I think he's starting. think America is just that is catching up. It's definitely it's just catching up, right? Which is so which is going to lead to my segue of what what am I sick and tired of, which is headlines that go under the heading of MAGA.

MARK HAYES (11:55.554)
Bye.

BROCK GANELES (12:21.709)
melts down dot dot dot because and I'll never click on the story because I don't care why mag is melting down but mag has a meltdown quote every day over something that is just simple basic life and American life for the rest of the country. Today the mag and meltdown was because our U.S. Olympic winter athletes are doing all kinds of anti-ice protests and mag is melting down because our

MARK HAYES (12:24.248)
you

MARK HAYES (12:30.274)
Fuck.

MARK HAYES (12:39.885)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (12:50.555)
the athletes representing them are actually making a statement as they compete in front of the world. So MAGA is melting down because their own people disagree with them and are willing to say it on the stage. I'm loving what they're doing. But you know MAGA melted down over a bad bunny. MAGA melts down over mermaids that aren't, you know, white enough for them. I mean MAGA

MARK HAYES (12:55.032)
Yep. In front of the world.

MARK HAYES (13:07.351)
Love it.

MARK HAYES (13:11.395)
you

MARK HAYES (13:16.618)
Alright. That one's more real though.

BROCK GANELES (13:18.925)
Maggie melts down at the latest joke on SNL or by Jimmy Kimmel, right? Like every day Maggie's melting down over something that the rest of us view as mainstream America that we actually kind of believe in. like stop with the mega meltdowns. It's the same. It's same as like the Trump is enraged. Trump's enraged every fucking day. He's a hateful person. So he's going to be enraged.

MARK HAYES (13:43.779)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (13:45.739)
Every single day is in Rays anytime someone disagrees with him. He's in rage now Because shit's going against them because the Epstein file story makes him look like a pedophile rapist. Or Yeah, or that it others are calling him a raging racist. well me or that calling him corrupt

MARK HAYES (13:59.283)
there seems to be some evidence.

BROCK GANELES (14:10.549)
he's enraged at all these things. Right. So I'm tired of the MAGA melts down or the Trump is enraged headline. Put those away. Nobody fucking cares anymore.

MARK HAYES (14:22.668)
Hell no. If the shoe fucking fits, wear it. But yeah, you know, and speaking of the headlines, you know, what's happening at the Washington Post is utterly ridiculous and in lockstep with the authoritarian playbook, right? You're cutting a third of the staff. I mean, you're gutting the place. You're getting rid of your sports section.

The Washington Post sports, like people read the Washington Post sports section from all over the world. And you're getting rid of it. But you had 70 million to fuck off on a Melania film that was absolutely trash that nobody went to fucking see. The people who bought tickets didn't even go fucking see it. So, yeah, shut the fuck up. You people are literally responsible.

Right? You're part of the apparatus. Jeff Bezos, fucking Zuckerberg, you know, obviously Musk, Peter T. We know who the people are.

BROCK GANELES (15:32.043)
and and Ellison with CBS and Barry Weiss. So. Yeah, I mean, they're playing along with authoritarianism. It's it's they're playing along with the white supremacy movement. You know that the story today, which I will refuse to read, but I just saw the headline, but I will not click on a story and give them a click they could monetize, which was framed as Colin Kaepernick being forgotten.

MARK HAYES (15:34.552)
That was it? Barry Weiss? Absolutely.

MARK HAYES (16:02.285)
Nope.

BROCK GANELES (16:02.839)
And my take was like in what circles? Not forgotten by me. How about the fact? Why didn't that headline say like Colin Kaepernick told us exactly who America is 10 years ago and white America and MAGA world did everything they could to shut that down and the complicit media.

MARK HAYES (16:08.514)
Exactly.

Not in my circle.

MARK HAYES (16:18.05)
What was that? Show us!

MARK HAYES (16:26.252)
Yep.

BROCK GANELES (16:32.357)
Quisted his message

MARK HAYES (16:35.52)
All day.

BROCK GANELES (16:36.827)
to paint a different narrative when is anyone was anyone more correct and foretold the future of where we were going when he was just talking about police brutality and not caring about America, America, not caring about the deaths of unarmed black men was like it was a kind of his message was pretty basic, simple and obvious.

MARK HAYES (16:39.566)
Yep.

BROCK GANELES (17:06.208)
and it had to be suppressed and the white and the media helped help do it.

MARK HAYES (17:06.313)
and it hit

MARK HAYES (17:11.148)
The media was complicit and went along with it in lockstep, Brock. He told you what it was about. He said, this is in protest of the killing of unarmed black Americans. He told you, it had nothing to do with the military. Had nothing to do with our soldiers and their service. The only thing the soldiers had to do with it was that a former army ranger or Navy SEAL told them, you

Why don't you just take a knee instead? You know? And that's the only piece that had to do with the military. But yet America is okay with Black people dying in the streets. And I think that's what happened in Minneapolis because Black America didn't show up. And it would have been okay for them to declare martial law and come out and start

BROCK GANELES (17:42.063)
Yeah, great.

MARK HAYES (18:10.336)
killing black Americans. We kind of would have been okay. We've been used to seeing that. I think as America, that's how America was built. Right on the backs of black Americans. We built this shit for free. Still haven't had our reparation. Never got the 40 acres in the mule. Some got some acres, some got a half a mule. Weren't able to keep it. So, you know, we're,

When we talk about the media's role in the demise of our democracy, have played a huge role. mean, if it's 51 % the 83 billionaires, it's 49 % the media. Because the image of the black man and black woman have been just brutalized.

over the years, over the decades, over the past, what, since D.W. Griffith in Birth of a Nation played at the White House. That was screened at the White House. And so ever since then, we have always been the villain. Right? And that's, and I mean, look at the crack epidemic and look at how Black American

women were portrayed, right, as crack fiends, as junkies, as the worst of the worst, who would abandon their homes and children just to get high. That was the narrative, and it stuck. And it stuck.

BROCK GANELES (19:55.609)
Yep. Yep. Just for a hit. But Mark, with all of that, right? If I mean, it took 10 years later from Kaepernick for two white people, Renee Good and Alex Brede to get shot to change the narrative in America. And now Colin Kaepernick foretold ICE agents being on the streets killing unarmed brown people.

MARK HAYES (20:12.46)
Right.

MARK HAYES (20:21.164)
Yep. Yep.

BROCK GANELES (20:26.031)
the names that most of us don't remember and didn't get highlighted. But the two white people changed the narrative on that entire topic. But I mean, I probably don't speak for most of white America on this, but I absolutely were welcome. I consider Colin Kaepernick one of the great civil rights leader of my time. And he is certainly welcome back in the conversation any day he chooses.

MARK HAYES (20:31.352)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (20:36.427)
All of me. Yep.

MARK HAYES (20:48.792)
Go down.

BROCK GANELES (20:55.983)
to take on that role again. He doesn't have to because he took so much fire. His career was taken away by white America, by Maga world because it made me very old white people because we didn't stand up enough for him. So, but let's not pretend like he's forgotten, forgotten by fucking who? The Washington Post as a part of their sweep to

MARK HAYES (21:08.13)
Yup, sacrifice discreet.

BROCK GANELES (21:24.581)
Placate the Mad King so Jeff Bezos can build more fucking data centers somewhere? Come on. Stop the bullshit.

MARK HAYES (21:30.272)
Right. Well, remember what Donald Trump did the first thing he got in office for 2.0, right? He started eliminating Black history, right? Scrubbed it off the government websites, wanted to get it out of the Smithsonian, wants to shut down the National Museum of Black History. So why do we think this is any fucking different? You know, we see what you're doing. Jeff Bezos, you're not that fucking smart.

Right? You married a gold digger, bro. You married a jock chaser. Okay? She got a body count, bro. And I don't care. I mean, that's how pissed I am. I'm going after his wife. I don't care. I don't care because, you know, it shows the fact that he's just looking for a trophy wife and his character.

is not beyond reproach. Like we can judge him on the actions that he's taken. Right? Just, just think about the number of lives he's impacted, you know, with one phone call. Yeah. Get rid of, get rid of a third of the staff and eliminate the sports department. I need to make some money back. Boom.

BROCK GANELES (22:48.706)
Yeah, let's just walk back and just go like, why exactly did Jeff Bezos buy the Washington Post? Why? Why the f***ing buy it?

MARK HAYES (22:54.322)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't to preserve history. Right?

BROCK GANELES (23:01.922)
It wasn't because democracy dies in darkness, right? Their fucking motto. Wasn't because Woodward and Bernstein, he wanted to make sure they were cracking the next story and doing great investigative work and talking truth to power. He wanted to be a part of the propaganda network, right? Like what, how could he manipulate it for his benefit? So.

MARK HAYES (23:07.094)
Right. Right.

MARK HAYES (23:24.896)
his benefit, right? So he can make some money and we could destroy the democracy and these 83 fucking asshole billionaires can take over.

BROCK GANELES (23:34.488)
Yeah, I look forward to the day when the when the article is Jeff Bezos forgotten, right? Because you know, Jeff Bezos melts down over whatever, whatever the topic de jure is on that front.

MARK HAYES (23:40.246)
No doubt. No doubt.

MARK HAYES (23:48.44)
Yeah.

But if you want a Colin Kaepernick jersey, you can get one on Amazon. How ironic is that? Fuck. All right, so before we get out of here, Brock, just want to give you an opportunity to say a few words if you'd like to. I you don't have to.

BROCK GANELES (23:56.078)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (24:09.752)
Well, first of all, look, I thank you for your comment. I know this is maybe for anyone who stuck this long, it can get a little personal. We do try to talk about things in black and white, but, you know, new viewers may not know. We're just old friends, old high school friends. So my mom passed away the other day, the funeral will be Monday. I went back to my hometown, spent the last couple of days there, hadn't been there in a while, the old neighborhood.

But Mark knows it well, a lot of time, Mark spent a lot of time at my house. Mark knows my mother, he knows the whole story. So we are friends at the heart, appreciated your outreach and your kind words. But as we do talk in black and white, I think I kind of, you know, sort of encountered something that touches so many people that crosses all races and cultures is that, you know, my mom had dementia.

MARK HAYES (24:47.596)
down.

BROCK GANELES (25:08.358)
and it was sad and it was a sad, you know, and it was, you know, there's a decline, right? And I think dementia is something because modern medicine is keeping people alive so much longer too, right? We're not dying of other things. So people are getting older and dementia is just becoming such a bigger part of so many people around our age, certainly lives with their parents. And it didn't strike me like you notice it, right? Everyone notices it, which is why we know everyone

around Trump every day is noticing it, right? They're not not noticing it. It's obvious. And it's sad because the person slips away before they lose them. So, you you kind of lose them before before you lose them. But it also struck me as because this is such a problem, right? Like it just reminds you when you live it is how complicated health care really is.

MARK HAYES (25:42.698)
Yeah, you can't not notice it.

BROCK GANELES (26:05.644)
and the CIS health care system really needs to be and how much real thought and smart policy has to go around it. Other countries, of course, have adopted smarter policy than us because we are afraid of the word socialism somehow where we're all in the same boat. But it's kind of been pretty obvious that that's the best way to deal with health care is for us all to be in the same boat.

and move to a universal system because the system can't handle the aging of America and the fact that we live longer. The facilities can't handle it. We've overwhelmed it. There aren't enough people. There are enough places and we have to have smart health care policy, not, you know, just whatever bantering that quote, Obamacare sucks and is ruined America, which we all know is bullshit and not true. Like we need

MARK HAYES (26:53.891)
Yes.

BROCK GANELES (27:04.634)
That's why you have to elect serious people that sit down and think through things and there's just certain portions of societal life that require serious people and we don't have serious people. we're just it's another place that's going the wrong direction is the American health care system. So mean, yes, I lost my mother. It's sad and all that. But in just getting up.

MARK HAYES (27:20.014)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (27:33.435)
front row view to it just in the last 72 hours. It's like, come on, we have to seriously talk about this topic and you can't have Donald Trump's of the world running your country. Who's a fucking moron and can't even get two sentences deep into the topic. Too complicated. He doesn't have the bandwidth board. He doesn't have the patience for it. And frankly, you can give a shit about fixing it. Right.

MARK HAYES (27:40.44)
We got.

MARK HAYES (28:00.128)
No. No.

BROCK GANELES (28:02.746)
So, I mean, if I have some boring words, that's sort of what has come to me just in last few days.

MARK HAYES (28:10.562)
Well, exactly. you know, Brock, you're right. When we talk about this in black and white, it does unite us. My mother is experiencing the effects of dementia, and it's a rapid decline. It's hard to watch. And it is so noticeable and so sad. the care.

for which they need a person undergoing dementia is so expensive. Like, I don't know how an average family can afford the kind of care that's required. Like, the kind of care that's required, you're almost priced out as a middle American.

BROCK GANELES (28:56.76)
Yeah, it's crippling. It's crippling. yeah, they're draining on they're going to drain every dollar that that person has left and.

MARK HAYES (29:01.974)
Yes. Yes. And that can't be the goal of our health care system because it all comes to an end. And the country is the health care industry for geriatrics is booming right now because of the baby boomers. And we're right on the edge of that. And they're all retiring. They're all getting sick. They're all dealing with health challenges.

Right from the crappy food, the shitty food that we eat and all the preservatives that are giving us cancer and adding to our dementia and you know, the hormones that's going in the chicken and all the, bi- you know, you know, our pork is not allowed to be sold in some countries because of the shit that we put in it to make it grow faster so we can have more bacon and more pork chops. It's fucking ridiculous.

BROCK GANELES (29:50.422)
Very good.

BROCK GANELES (29:58.031)
because we don't share the burden of this. And as people live longer, it's just obvious that you can see how elders in a family can like drain all the financial resources of the family and then because they're living by staying alive and it hurts the younger generations in the family because the resources aren't there for their

MARK HAYES (30:01.397)
Exactly.

BROCK GANELES (30:27.914)
education and opportunities, right? Where the money should be going into the future, to be honest, is going to be drained and it's it's inevitable outcomes. So we we're going to, you know, yeah, we're going to have to face and address this across all cultures, all races, everyone, because it's just going to touch everyone. It's it's not discern. It's not discerning, right?

MARK HAYES (30:49.794)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (30:56.214)
It touched your family, touched mine. We ain't the only two by a long shot, right?

MARK HAYES (30:59.544)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (31:02.88)
Not at all. And you can go to any senior care community and see that you can run, but you can't hide from dementia. So, well, I'm glad you're back, my friend. I'm glad you're doing well. And, you know, I'm glad you're a friend, you know, absolutely.

BROCK GANELES (31:16.644)
All right, appreciate it.

BROCK GANELES (31:23.044)
Thank you. Same here. Appreciate the kind words and the support and helping me get through it. But yeah, we'll be all right. Sad, but you

MARK HAYES (31:32.019)
Absolutely. And I'm around if you need me, my brother.

BROCK GANELES (31:35.47)
work. Okay. Thank you, Mark. Always a pleasure. I will talk to you tomorrow. Okay.

MARK HAYES (31:39.384)
Same here. Sounds good. Peace.