2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

Mark Hayes (00:01.788)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Two men in black and white, an honest conversation. Who knows where to begin? You know, Donald Trump is in a free fucking fall, as is our country. Our country is just a red hot mess. we got no power and we got nobody rendering aid. Gary, Indiana is where we begin tonight with two men in black and white. Brock and Ellis, my partner in crime, in the lovely confines of the Hudson River Valley.

And Brock, how how has it been damn near two weeks that a city like Gary, Indiana can be without power and nobody's doing a goddamn thing about it? You know, you got people left and right, with unrefrigerated medication, losing food that they can't afford to lose because groceries are so fucking high. and, you know, it it barely made the news. It's been going on for almost two weeks. I

I I've only seen it on on social media. I haven't seen it in mainstream news.

Brock Ganeles (01:09.876)
you barely hear about it. it's such a combination of so many failings in America. It happens to be Gary Indiana this week. It's a combination of climate change denial, decades long energy companies attacking the science, right? Attacking the the eggheads, the smart people, dumbing it down to it's just, you know, a warmer summer and this and that and

Paying off politicians, it's money in politics, paying off politicians to vote against climate change initiatives to finally get a president Donald Trump who's bringing back coal in 2026. Well, the rest of the world knows the answer is renewables. So it starts there, it moves on to the fact that we stripped away FEMA. Right? There's no cavalry that comes to help anybody out anymore.

'Cause we decided that FEMA was a waste of money and that's socialism because that's us as citizens pulling our tax dollars into a little kitty that goes and then takes care of the people on their worst days and weeks of their lives when something that they had no control over puts them in a terrible financial bind, potentially losing all everything they have. And this one happens to sprinkle in some racism because it's like, Gary Indiana.

Mark Hayes (02:15.427)
Well isn't it

Brock Ganeles (02:34.85)
Bunch of black people, fuck Maybe we'll get there. You know what you know what the the sun'll dry and it'll dry out all that water and they'll be fine soon enough. But as much as this one's racist, a week ago with Spokane Washington that was burning to the ground, those people lost homes, lost their you know, have to rebuild their lives. FEMA didn't show up there either. Hawaii just got devastated by an El Nino hurricane and they've lost power down there.

Mark Hayes (02:35.385)
Two years. Bye, folks.

Mark Hayes (02:43.597)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (03:03.192)
FEMA's not showing up there as well. Gary and Down will get it worse because racism is thrown into the equation. But like you said, this is our America right now. This is what we brought upon ourselves by not listening to scientists, being anti-intellectual to begin with. Too much money. Ca you know, toxic capitalism where the energy companies fed the media to pla to discredit science.

Mark Hayes (03:10.363)
Sure.

Yeah.

Mark Hayes (03:32.239)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (03:32.408)
Corruption all over the place and of course the fact that, you know, we won't we're selfish. We don't take care of each other and we let Trump Trump's selfishness dictate our society at this point in time.

Mark Hayes (03:45.132)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. which is utterly disgusting. I mean, we let this, you know, moron of a of a D plus student come in here, run our country into the ground. We we asked for it because we gave him two terms. And now here he is destroy again. I I mean, how many times have I said he's destroying the very fabric of this country? his racism is palpable.

You know, it it but I I am just I'm still amazed at how many people just go along with it and just float along as if it's all good, you know, as if climate change is gonna better itself. As if, you know, fossil fuels haven't done enough damage already. I mean, God almighty, like how how many more storms do we have to have?

And how many more people at NOAA do we have to fire? And how many more balloons do we weather balloons do we have to not send up in order for us to get the message that these storms are getting more and more severe? The hottest July on record just went past. We're in the midst of the hottest August, as you could possibly imagine. Hundred and one down in Tolusca, Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

For football practice at University of Alabama, I mean it's a it's a thousand and one degrees here in Metro Atlanta. I know it's hotter three hours south. I can't imagine what's going on in Florida. At least they got the coast, you know, but before you know it, you know, it well, you know, who's really gonna mind if Florida goes underwater?

Brock Ganeles (05:28.416)
Mark Phoenix is over a hundred every single day. Houston appears to be over a hundred every single day now. Like they're mu they're like a month to six weeks into a hundred every day.

Mark Hayes (05:31.949)
yeah.

Mark Hayes (05:35.149)
yeah. yeah.

Brock Ganeles (05:42.207)
And we c we we probably can't never roll it back, but we still we still have a ruling regime that is at its fabric, at its core, climate change deniers and pro fossil fuels and d drill more oil, mine more coal, like we literally have stepped back.

Mark Hayes (06:07.874)
And yeah.

Brock Ganeles (06:09.986)
To like 50 years worth as if we didn't hadn't learned anything in 50 years, and this is how we're kind of running shit around here. That's what America voted for. So we're too hot. We have too much extreme weather. We strip the money away from the people who get hurt by the extreme weather. And we just move on. Like you said, the media barely covers it anymore, because they got more salacious stories to cover, right? You got Harry and Meghan moving back to the UK. I mean, that's more important than talking about a bunch of people dying.

Mark Hayes (06:38.629)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (06:39.97)
in Gary, Indiana, because they can't because their insulin is underwater and they can't leave their the kid out of their house and there's no power. So people are just gonna die in America. And we're gonna shrug our shoulders.

Mark Hayes (06:41.667)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (06:50.052)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. and in the meantime, people are waiting for the midterms. I don't know why you're made waiting for the midterms. He's already said he's coming in to seize ballot boxes. They're already talking about it. The five top, the five top secretaries of state in the country are already on battle planning calls trying to get lawyers lined up to see what can be done when ICE shows up to take your ballot boxes. Now, if you're in Gary, Indiana.

How the fuck do the midterms help you? If you're in Hawaii, how do the midterms help you? If you're in Spokane, Washington, how do the midterms? If you're in Los Angeles, California, and your house burned down in that fire, what, two summers ago? Is there help coming? I mean, last time I checked, they had rebuilt like six houses. Those are the six, those are the six families who had cash on hand to rebuild another expensive ass house.

in LA. I mean it like why why would anyone stay here? Why would anyone stay in the US when you can go to Latin American countries and for you know twenty five hundred dollars a month, three thousand dollars a month, you can get health care, you can get your retirement visa, you can you can get seven hundred dollar rent. And by the way the beach is not far away right there on Costa Rica. Groceries are cheap.

Mark Hayes (08:26.243)
hey, look, I'm just saying there's something to be said for it. Why are we sitting here waiting for us to be mistaken as foreigners so people with taser mittens can put hands on me? I mean, the the quality of life in America right now is in s is such a shit show. You know, first of all, why would anybody want to come here? Second of all, you know, if if your business I mean

Dude, if if you're one of the top students in some of these other in some of these other countries, are you still rushing to America to come to perfect your craft? There are other places in the world you can go that are kept it's not gonna be hard to catch up with the US in terms of its technological advances in medicine, science, or anywhere else. Because we're not focused on that. We're defunding all that so that Donald Trump and his family can be rich, including

His college dropout son who has already bagged a hundred and fifty million dollars this year as a college student who's not taking any classes. Now you tell me he's just that right.

Brock Ganeles (09:36.418)
And we're

And we're forty trilli we're forty trillion dollars in debt. And we have really so little to show for it. It's sort of like, okay, where has the money gone into? Right? No one's getting services, right? People are being kicked off of healthcare roles. Less people are covered. We stripped away food assistance. Less people are being fed.

Mark Hayes (09:48.601)
Got nothing to show for.

Brock Ganeles (10:04.108)
Right? We stripped away FEMA. Less people are being helped when they're in a time of need. Right? We certainly stripped away foreign aid, so we like certainly just shrug our shoulders at famine overseas. We haven't we s Biden's Biden's administration built up our infrastructure, right? We fixed a bunch of roads, but we've now kinda fizzled even on that effort.

Of rebuilding and modernizing airports and transportation and the like. We really just have nothing to show for all this money that's going out the door. And because of the corruption and because we've decided to spend an asinine amount of money fighting a war that was absolutely and totally unnecessary, that we now have our tail firmly between our legs and we're

Mark Hayes (10:56.52)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (10:58.11)
Absolutely backpedaling away from it, from no longer even having a fighting force, and now we're back to talking economic sanctions on Iran, which I feel like is where we were like five years ago. When we had a nucle when we had a nuclear oversight in place. So we've lost kind of every positive aspect of any of our

Mark Hayes (11:13.53)
exactly.

Brock Ganeles (11:24.968)
stance in the Middle East and we also lost all our military bases over there because they got bombed and destroyed. So we don't even have ports anymore. So we've actually lost some of our strength and power in the world as well. So for 40 trillion in debt, it just doesn't seem like the return on this investment, so to speak, is very impressive. In fact, it's embarrassing. And it's embarrassing that we have a country

are letting Donald Trump and his corrupt cronies just raid our refrigerator all night long so we got nothing nothing left to eat in the morning. And that's that's how I view America now.

Mark Hayes (12:06.35)
Nothing.

And you know what? Nobody's in upheaval about it. What do you what do you what are you gonna do? Start waiting until they start seizing ballot boxes? It's gonna be too late then. It's gonna be too late. Look, Donald Trump would not be doing a billion dollars in renovations to the White House if he didn't plan to stay. He's certainly not doing it for the next person, right? And the Supreme Court just limp speaking of limping along.

The Supreme Court is just saying, yeah, you guys already started building that. You already destroyed the East Wing. fuck it. We can't stop ya. John Roberts will definitely go down in the history books as one of the biggest cowards in American history. he and his other five cronies on this wow. I I mean clown court. I mean it's it's it's it's abominable.

What they've done to allow Donald Trump to operate, you know, just as an autonomous entity as if there were no other branches of government. I mean, they've just let him run roughshod over the entire nation, over the in all Brock. There was hundreds of years of history in that East Wing. And and Cankel's McTaco tents destroyed it.

Like so for no reason other than his own pleasure. Other than I just felt like doing it. and we're just letting him feel like do whatever he wants to fucking do to us right now. And that's the sad part. I thought Americans were tougher than this. I didn't know Americans were a a bunch of squeamish assholes, you know, who would let a D minus student lead them right into ruin.

Mark Hayes (14:06.32)
Because that's what's going on here. We are losing everything. There is no luster to this place right now. There is none. You know, look, race racism is not a political position. White supremacy is not a political policy. So why are we speaking about it as if it well, I'm a Donald Trump supporter.

You're a supporter of white supremacy and racism and systematic oppression. Well, thanks for saying the quiet part out loud. We get it. We get it. But but when but when people of color tell you that, stop saying it doesn't exist. You already said you you support it. That means you've been supporting it. Because we've been saying it's been going on since Juneteenth.

When the last of us were supposedly supposed to be set free. But until we're all free, none of us can be free. And that's the bottom line. And, you know, Brock, it it's sad that, you know, I I shared you know, your your your comparison to Nolan Wells, the Nolan Wells case to, you know, the state of America right now. And how the two just mirror each other. And

Couldn't be a better, couldn't be a better comparison right now because we see how hard it is to obtain justice. We just saw in the Carmelo Anthony case 20 pages, 20 pages of questionable and racist behavior from the Carmelo Anthony Victor, what what was the kid's name? Austin, I I can't think of Austin Metcalf.

Brock Ganeles (15:59.159)
MacAff. Metcalf.

Mark Hayes (16:01.872)
We just saw how his behavior was aboring, so so bad he was banned from basketball games, banned from school functions and activities because of his racism. And and and we're saying that Carmelo Anthony got a fair trial when his parents were in bed with the prosecutors and judges? Literally and figuratively, it looks like from the pictures. So, you know, Brock, it's so frustrating.

You know, it's only gonna get worse. You know, I I mean, I th I'm thinking I'm not looking forward to the midterms because after the midterms, the gloves are coming off. If we don't fight back, if we don't fight back and shut this shit down long before the midterms get here, which is what sixty seventy-five days, we got we got no shot at ever getting back.

Brock Ganeles (16:55.01)
Seventy five days. Yeah.

Mark Hayes (17:01.368)
In in l in our lifetime anyway.

Brock Ganeles (17:05.228)
You Mark, I've said the Nolan Wells case of Microcosm of America and mirrors like sort of bigger picture stories because it's it's racism and then it's white people turning around saying, Why are you making this about racism? It's like, okay, well you're a bunch of white guys who went out and basically killed your black, you know, so called friend, and you're now being protected by the system and you're in a massive cover up and it's it's a story of like corruption in broad daylight.

Mark Hayes (17:27.9)
This thing.

Brock Ganeles (17:34.211)
which is basically the Trump administration. But what I hadn't heard framed before, hadn't thought about it this way as white supremacy is not a policy, right? So really as you're saying it, I was thinking, yeah, well, white supremacy is really a social statement of like, I want my life to be better than yours, yet at the same time, all of our lives are getting worse.

So there's no focus on actually making improving quality of life. So we're all in a declining quality of life, but you have these white supremacists just fighting for that ability to have their quality of life not just not be quite as bad as the black people around them, but everyone is sliding backwards. It's it's like in a really stupid fight, right? Not you're not fighting for your own even

Mark Hayes (18:04.198)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (18:30.362)
Yep. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (18:34.146)
you know, longevity of your life. You know, we're all you have declining life spans, but I just what? White people want theirs to be less declining than black people? Like that's some sort of victory. Yeah, I hadn't thought of it framed that way. That there there are no policies, because the policy is just to be in a better place than the others. And to be able to bully them and to be able to bully them, you know, through the state and

Mark Hayes (18:55.484)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (19:04.166)
in you know sort of off grid type of stuff at the parking lots at at the parks and just playgrounds and swimming pools you know all those little places where people can win little battles that maybe make them feel better because they get a bunch of black people kicked out of the communal pool where they can just you know make them feel like shit and hopefully get to leave. It's just such a losing game for all of us. I'm hoping

Mark Hayes (19:21.083)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Hayes (19:24.955)
Right.

Mark Hayes (19:29.519)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (19:34.297)
The only hopeful idea I have about the midterms is is it gives a line in the sand where after people vote, if they get fucked with after they've gone through the effort of voting, that maybe it almost in their own mind gives them license to protest and or like think about overthrowing their government because now there's been this formal break.

in the contract we have with our government our democratic government that they've broken our democracy so now we don't have to play by the same rules. I'm hoping that's what the midterms reveal about the American people that we were just waiting for that moment that makes us feel it's okay to get out the pitchforks and storm the fucking White House. Because he stole our vote and maybe white America's waiting for that, you know?

Mark Hayes (20:27.481)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (20:33.464)
You can steal black America's vote, but you're gonna tell me my vote isn't gonna count. You're sending people in to take my ballot box and not count my vote. And that that might be what white people need. We won't know till day till s we won't know for seventy six days.

Mark Hayes (20:46.033)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (20:49.784)
Right. But it's gonna happen because people are so upset with him in places like Nebraska, places like Iowa, you know, pla places that are suffering. And look, I'm I'm telling you what, you know, we're hearing it now. We're starting to see MAGA say, wait a minute, this wasn't supposed to be us. We talked about this the other night, just like the Latino communities. Way, whoa, you're supposed to do it to them.

Not us. And so, you know, that's gonna be a shock to the system. And it's gonna leave a mark, I'm telling you right now. And they I like look, there's no voting our way out of this. Okay. There are no, if there are no legal ways to get this buffoon out of office at the midterm, we might as well kiss this country goodbye. I'm out of here.

I'm just gonna tell you right now, we'll be doing this podcast internationally. We'll be two men internationally but in black and white. Because it ain't safe. It ain't gonna be safe, bro. It ain't gonna be safe for black and brown. Brock, have you seen how many peop black people have been ha found hanging from trees in recent months? Come on now. Black people don't hang themselves. You know why? Because we were hung as a form of terrorism.

Brock Ganeles (21:56.277)
Ha ha ha

Brock Ganeles (22:10.465)
I have.

Mark Hayes (22:18.137)
For so long into the 19th, then to the 20th century. Right? Okay, black people don't want to die by hanging. Most of most of us have somebody in our family who did die by hanging because most of our families came from the southern slave plantations. So that is nothing we want a part of.

And you know, to think that black people are ending up in these trees, which there is no way physically you could have gotten up there and hung yourself with your hands tied, and then say, nothing to see here. There's a problem. I mean, it's happening in California. It's happening in Louisiana, Mississippi. Well, Mississippi, we expect. Right? Which is sad.

How how sad is that that we expect? Well, if somebody's hangin' it's probably in Mississippi.

The fun we're still being defined by shit that happened a hundred years ago in in in some of these southern states. This whole southern this whole southern strategy, which is obviously bat black and back, is all about disenfranchising the the the largest popul concentration of the population of black folks. Because we know it's all in the southern belt.

Brock Ganeles (23:57.047)
And another thing the Nolan Wells case teaches us and makes obvious, and of course the Derek Chauvans of the world, you know, kinda told us this five, six years ago, whatever it was now, is how racist the police forces are. So the the actual you know, those that are given guns and badges by the state to protect and to serve and paid with our taxpayer money.

Mark Hayes (24:14.084)
Brock Ganeles (24:26.508)
really just become agents of this, you know, this social status. And we just see. Nolan Wells, they immediately said that does appears to be no foul play. And if the if we're not in the if we're not in the internet era, the age of communication, the cell phone era, there is no there is no forum for the media that for the noise to boil up to a level

where individuals just start getting riled up and doing, you know, online sleuth thing and put a whole bunch of eyes on it and may and still, we still might not get justice. But you know what all these hangings, right? The police come, they take the person down, they say, it looks to be no foul play, suicide, the medical exam or rolls along with it, and everybody moves on. And it just happens. No one even looks into

Mark Hayes (24:59.141)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (25:17.947)
Audio.

Brock Ganeles (25:19.832)
They they know the good old boys that did it, but they don't want to know. Plausible deniability. No one ever investigates it, and life goes on 24 hours later as if it as if it didn't happen. That's that's that's America, right? So that's America in the day-to-day, in the dark corners, right? In the woods, somehow there's never cameras around, no one ever sees that shit. But that's sort of like the day-to-day of what's going on in

Mark Hayes (25:33.123)
Never happened. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (25:48.739)
to full circle of Gary, Indiana, of what happens when shit happens to a black community and the water overflows and the power's out and they're ten days deep. How do you survive for ten days without power? What are you what are you eating? How you know it's the summer, so maybe you can get through the night. Where

Mark Hayes (25:52.231)
huh.

Mark Hayes (26:04.739)
But no panel.

Brock Ganeles (26:12.782)
You know, where are you even sleeping? How are you getting your medicine? How are you getting to a doctor's appointment? How are you surviving any kind of medical incident when no one can get to you? It's how what you know, how much clean water do you have access to, right? We just it's happened in the dark corner of Gary, Indiana, and America's ignoring it as we ignore the hangings.

Mark Hayes (26:24.475)
Ain't no telling, bro.

Mark Hayes (26:39.577)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (26:40.236)
And that's where we are as a country. And yeah, I mean i I it has to be frustrating, ten X frustrating for a black man than for me as a white person.

But if way people like me are getting are hitting this boiling point and frustration level, I mean, you know it's really, really bad.

Mark Hayes (26:59.011)
We need more. Yeah. Yeah. We need more. More people need to wake up and and see how this is actually impacting all of us. Just like you said, this is not a win. Like, like all of our lifespans are shortening because of measles outbreaks and leprosy and all these diseases that have come back. Right? All of our kids are in peril.

Right, it's it's it's it's not just one segment of the community. Okay, we're still breathing the same air.

I like look I don't know how you get people

Brock Ganeles (27:37.547)
Same air that's having worse quality, right? And that's and it's getting worse as more data centers get rolled out and pollute our air that much more. Our f our food is less safe, right? From the exploding diarrhea, which people laughed about, to just continuing foodborne illnesses and like recalls. You can't trust produce right now. Really, kinda anywhere at all, pretty much. And beyond like

Mark Hayes (27:40.773)
Whoa.

Mark Hayes (27:55.685)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (27:59.204)
At all.

Mark Hayes (28:03.257)
Nope.

Brock Ganeles (28:04.79)
eradicated diseases coming back. And of course the gun violence never goes away, right? We never still never did anything about that. So you wake up and all of a sudden there was another mass shooting in another town somewhere else, right? It's getting to every town. You know, now we're we're double we're double dipping on a lot of places. So we're just finding more and more ways to make ourselves l less healthy and put us in position to die premature deaths.

Mark Hayes (28:22.799)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (28:32.832)
And it's all because we've allowed for leadership, corrupt leadership in the worst human being ever put in charge of the country, who we're letting run around with his 35-year-old girlfriend who's a fucking whack job, tucking in tucking him into bed, writing crazy tweets every night, and stirring up the world, waking up the next day where he's run up our national debt, but somehow.

Mark Hayes (28:50.149)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (28:55.386)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (29:02.242)
has scooped more and more of the economy and the money into his own bank account. And it's groundhog day. We wake up every day and we play this same game.

Mark Hayes (29:11.557)
Doing the same thing. Yep. Same thing. Brock, give me a quick hit before we get up out of here. I got one for you.

Brock Ganeles (29:21.922)
Well, my quick hit is I spent the night in New York the day last night and much of the night in New York City. We had a massive downpour, which is okay. Big storm, more than we usually would get, just a crazy amount of rain over a two hour period. Of course, this you know, the city flooded, subways flooded, New Jersey flooded. But we also had tornadoes. And you speak started because we started the conversation with climate change. It's like you didn't have tornadoes in New York City. You had tornadoes in Long Island.

And like in Jersey, like right around the city. I mean, that never happened our entire lives, Mark. Tornadoes was something that happened like in Kansas with the Wizard of Oz. Tornadoes in the Northeast, we fucked up the climate so much that we're just living with crazy aberrant, less less aberrant as they happen each day, extreme conditions coming to find us everywhere.

Mark Hayes (29:55.023)
Right.

Mark Hayes (30:02.468)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (30:06.97)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (30:14.735)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (30:20.63)
wildfires. We've now have earthquakes in the northeast, which we never had before, not massive ones yet, but earthquakes enough to like, you know, wake people up and now tornadoes. And it's because we allowed the energy companies to pay off the politicians, to keep policies that c had us polluting the air and the ozone levels layers and we allowed them to denigrate the science.

Mark Hayes (30:21.038)
Yep.

Mark Hayes (30:32.814)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (30:49.93)
and win those battles over the years and we're all paying for it in our lifetime. And the lifetimes after us, Mark, are just gonna live in w a worse world to live in. So that's my rant. That's my quick hit in my rant. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what you see in the South that you didn't see before, but tornadoes in New York City you're like, what the fuck? Come on.

Mark Hayes (30:59.212)
Right.

Mark Hayes (31:04.171)
I I mean, is it even gonna be inevitable?

Mark Hayes (31:14.169)
Yeah, we just see more intensity down here, more heat. the storms are stronger, more violent. and you know, you you could you can pretty much dial them up on a regular basis. You know, it's almost storm time now. Seven, seven thirty, eight o'clock, August evening, hot, hum, humid. It's it's storming somewhere around the metro area. my pet peeve and my rant tonight.

Is the you know I've been on this Penn State drug ring thing, you know, the the fraternity heads, you know, making the pledges, bag up the work and you know, run around with the bricks. They got more bricks up there than you need to build another house, another fraternity house up there, these guys buying kilos of cocaine. What cracked me up though?

Was Pablo Pledge Scobar. I can't even remember his name. but his nickname was Pledge Scobar, and he thought it was a joke when he was being arrested by the feds. He thought it was a prank by his fraternity brothers. And here's why it bothers me, bro. Dude was like, yo, we could we could slag dope on Penn State's campus, one of the premier campuses in America, and never be bothered for years.

For years. And when it looked as if he was about to get caught, because he was, he said, this is not happening. This must be a joke. How what does that tell you about the impunity with which he had operated with? He didn't care. He never anticipated he'd get caught, Brock. He never thought he'd get what does that say?

about our world in black and white when you can opt

Brock Ganeles (33:13.024)
I hadn't heard that part of the story. He didn't even think that they the as he was getting arrested, he didn't think it could possibly be happening to him. Right? This isn't supposed to happen to me. You should be in downtown Pittsburgh, you know, cracking cracking, you know, your the skulls of some black drug dealers. What are you doing on our campus? Wow.

Mark Hayes (33:21.177)
Yeah. Right.

Right.

Mark Hayes (33:30.765)
Right. Yeah, there's no drug deals here. Go get the guys that are actually the problem. We're keeping it quiet up here. Our pledges bag it up nice and neat. You know, nobody's getting ripped off up here.

Brock Ganeles (33:42.733)
Yeah, they're the bad guys. My view of the story as I heard it, and I haven't read as much about it as you, was also about how easy it is for people to just go along to get along. Like none of those pledges had any like pangs of conscience or like, you know what? Do I really want to be in this fraternity with this group of people? Like part of my pledging is I'm begging

Cocaine? Like it didn't hit them as like, wait a second, right and wrong. I've been taught right and wrong in my life. This isn't what this isn't where I my life should be headed. This isn't something I should be doing. So it's not something I want to be doing. These aren't the people that I want to surround myself with to live a good and better life. And they just rolled along as a part of the fraternity. It's sort of like MAGA. The way everyone just rolls along.

Mark Hayes (34:21.071)
Right.

Mark Hayes (34:40.719)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (34:41.912)
'Cause they feel like a part of something, no matter how, you know, corrupt or abusive or decrepit that group becomes. And it's also like all those kids, white kids on the boats outside of Horn Island, right? The fact that no one's saying anything. Do you know what I mean? People must know what really fucking went on? Hundreds to thousands know what really went on.

Mark Hayes (34:58.18)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mark Hayes (35:05.305)
Well Brock, when that thing comes out in the watch, I saw Nancy Grace had a witness to the confrontation to the fight just the other night. I didn't get a chance to watch the full clip, but Brock, there are so many people that know what actually went went on went on. Yeah. Brock, you can't have that many people out there.

Brock Ganeles (35:24.706)
That no.

And how many people knew on the Penn St yeah, how many people knew on the Penn State campus about these kids in this whole fraternity that was wheeling and dealing drugs for years? But of course they did suppress the the pedophilia of their football coach for twenty years also. So Penn State's kinda got a little bit of a history of looking the other way, right? The authorities in in the area. It's it's yeah, it's sad to see.

Mark Hayes (35:37.625)
You know what you had to know.

Mark Hayes (35:46.031)
Right.

Mark Hayes (35:50.49)
Little bit.

Mark Hayes (35:56.187)
the problem. All right, my friend. Great Friday. Stiff train.

Brock Ganeles (35:59.064)
All right Mark. Whew, yeah, we got a lot off our chest today. There's a lot problems. All right, my man. Always good to talk to ya. We'll pick it up again tomorrow.

Mark Hayes (36:08.91)
Revolution.