2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

MARK HAYES (00:01.518)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting edition of Two Men in Black and White, an honest conversation. All right, we're going to start at the top. You know, Trump is continuing with his mental decline. The Epstein files are really starting to weigh on him. I mean, he is absolutely losing it. Rage posting in the middle of the night talking about going after Harvard for a billion kajillion dollars after they had a deal in principle.

you know, for him to stop attacking, you know, one of the great bastions of education, of higher learning in our country. But, you know, this guy is so unstable. We don't, I mean, how does this all end? Good grief. Come on, cholesterol, do your thing. Brock Ginellis joins me now live from the beautiful confines of his home in the upper Hudson River Valley, just outside New York City. And Brock,

You know, the Mad King, the Epstein files, it's not going away.

I don't understand how Pammy Jo let all this stuff get out knowing that she's knee deep waist high in this stuff. And she's implicated as well with all the stuff from Florida that Epstein was able to skirt and get away with and shmoose law enforcement. I mean, it's a pretty sad batch.

in that cabinet again. The incompetence is through the roof.

BROCK GANELES (01:41.938)
She must have been told that they had redacted everything and that there was going to be nothing in there that was incriminating to Trump. Other people would be in there, but not Trump and are certainly nothing that would tarnish him too much. That must have been what she was told, right? She obviously didn't go through the three million pages, right? So she's had to get told that by someone and said, okay, we're going to release at least a little bit here. It's going to release. It's going to ease the pressure that we're getting.

from both QAnon crazies and Congress and the Ro Khanna and Tom Massey crew, as well as the victims and just that noise level, this'll tamp it down. you know, they just, there's just Trump's in there so much, they can't even release a page that doesn't incriminate them. I'm finding the most, you know, I guess humorous part of it, if there is one, is Trump trying to convince us that what's been disclosed

is exonerating him. Like he's trying to pitch that argument that yeah, yeah, I've been, I've been, you know, totally proved to be innocent. It's like, dude, you're in there 5,400 times. You got photos with like nine year old girls. We just heard a story about how you're like auctioning off young women and like watching their private parts as a part of the auction. And you're, you're, you're trying to tell me that these files are exonerating you like,

MARK HAYES (02:58.71)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (03:09.685)
Dude, read one page of it. So yeah, it's weighing on him because he can't get away from it. So this is just going to be a dark cloud over him really the rest of his life, which tough shit, you know. But, know, we, I mean, his outburst today was another just.

MARK HAYES (03:11.276)
Yo. mean...

MARK HAYES (03:26.702)
Good!

MARK HAYES (03:33.56)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (03:34.198)
you know, just like an old grumpy old man on his porch with the broom, you know, swinging at the cat who's, you know, just mumbling to himself. But he went after Caitlin Collins for not smiling. And she was like, I'm asking questions about the Epstein survivors, right? It's not exactly a topic that lends itself to, you know, yeah, jovial mood, but, but, you know, Trump

MARK HAYES (03:39.437)
Right.

MARK HAYES (04:00.374)
Smiles.

BROCK GANELES (04:04.083)
is insulted if a young woman's not smiling at him, right? Because his narcissism is not being fed in that moment.

MARK HAYES (04:11.498)
Right. Well, Brock, talk to me about your thoughts on this decoded diary of this 16 year old, because, you know, my issue is that, you know, we've got this web of rich and powerful men and there's only one woman in jail of all the names that have been mentioned of all these people. Right. One woman.

is serving prison time for what was done to these women now, but then children.

BROCK GANELES (04:49.907)
It's amazing. Other countries are dealing with their people in power who are in there immediately. Right. People are getting fired. There's horse resignations. know, Prince Andrew's been sent to like a cottage in the corner of the the farm. Right. You know, he's been basically kicked, you know, in essence, you know, expunged from the royal family. But there was like this guy used to be U.S. ambassador was in there and he's been, you know,

MARK HAYES (04:58.87)
Right? Right?

MARK HAYES (05:08.206)
Good

BROCK GANELES (05:19.083)
forced to resign. Someone in Slovakia, think, was in there. Boom, fired right away. But in this country, it's just there's still absolutely no formal ramifications. We would hope there's going to be some embarrassment and shame is going, you know, people like Bill Gates are going to feel shame. You know, it's going to change his ability to have a public profile. But

MARK HAYES (05:25.741)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (05:35.373)
No.

BROCK GANELES (05:48.436)
Nothing's going to happen legally because I mean, Pam Bondi is going to make some mistakes, but she's not going to be cuffing any anyone in Trump's circle because they're all just going to, I guess they're all just going to try to barrel through this and, you know, kind of give America the finger. Like, you know, so what we did it. So so what?

MARK HAYES (06:00.408)
May.

MARK HAYES (06:11.436)
Right. Right.

BROCK GANELES (06:13.801)
So what way Todd Blanch, right? Trump's lawyer was saying like, what's what's the crime and quote partying with Jeff Epstein? Like, what do you how's he what's the definition of partying here? Like mean like raping a 12 year old like that's partying.

MARK HAYES (06:19.36)
and freeing.

MARK HAYES (06:25.048)
Yeah. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (06:29.644)
Yeah. In his book.

Maybe we ought to check him out. Is his name in there? Good grief. I mean, read the room, dude. Are you that tone deaf? There's no harm. It's not against the law to party with Epstein? Are you kidding me? What kind of parties are you used to going to? That should have been the follow-up. What kind of parties do you go to, Mr. Assistant Attorney, Deputy Attorney General, whatever the fuck you are?

But this 16 year old's diary, there's apparently a torture video. She goes into in depth, in depth descriptions of some of the essay and the torture and the R word that she and her friends.

We're with she identifies John Luke Brunel the late French modeling agent With that would have links to Epstein And your boy Leon Black who she said, you know bit bit her and drew blood and They got mad at her because she got blood I think on the carpet or something. I mean like

Each document that comes out is more horrendous than the last. And I don't know how only one person, one woman, is now being held accountable.

BROCK GANELES (08:07.073)
Well, you look at someone like Leon Bach, like Apollo, his his fund, it's just operating as if nothing has gone on, as if the person at the top of it isn't like up to his eyeballs in child rape and the entire Epstein Web. Right. We don't even know. We haven't even followed and tracked the money yet. That's going to take an entirely.

MARK HAYES (08:34.286)
Woo!

BROCK GANELES (08:35.041)
new Department of Justice. So once we start following the money, I mean, because supposedly Trump even has like thousands of transactions of money flowing to Epstein. Like, why would that for what reason? Give me give me some other plausible reason why that much money would be flowing around. You know, I mean, it's gonna I mean, we're it's gonna have to be the first thing the next DOJ

MARK HAYES (08:37.036)
Yes.

MARK HAYES (08:48.151)
Right.

MARK HAYES (08:53.368)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (09:01.673)
You know, maybe the second thing, first, we're going to deal with all these ICE agents. You know, we're a third thing. First, we're going to deal with Trump and his administration, then all the ICE agents. And then we're going to have a total financial dissection of the entire Epstein Web and figure out where all the money flowed and why and who was behind it and throw down some indictments along the way. Because there's going to be.

MARK HAYES (09:08.692)
design things in those towns.

MARK HAYES (09:18.232)
That's all.

MARK HAYES (09:23.298)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (09:27.913)
a shitload of money laundering. There's going to lot of financial crimes in there as well.

MARK HAYES (09:32.202)
Right, right. Well, now we know why, you know, Jeffrey Epstein had to die. You know, this stuff is is hi anus as they would say in my cousin Vinny. You know, the forced pregnancies, the abortion that the 16 year old writes about, you know, the baby that she had and they took from her. my God. And then she writes, yeah, this one stuck.

when she got pregnant again. And I was like, oh my God. When I read that, I about wanted to throw up, right? These are 40, 50, 60 year old men doing this to this girl. And she detailed years and years of sexual abuse and it had to be decoded. And somebody cracked the code.

And I forget if it was somebody in the FBI, but it's been sitting there. It's been sitting there. Somebody in Merrick Garland's DOJ saw it. And Merrick Garland said, no, no, no, thank you.

BROCK GANELES (10:43.638)
Bye bye.

Well, Christopher Ray was was in the FBI like the entire time, right? Was Comey and then Christopher Ray. So like. Did they just not deem it important enough to. To have to have a real investigation on. Were they afraid? Were they, you know, like what's why? Give me give me, you know, what's a plausible explanation on why our premier, the premier law enforcement agencies in our country?

MARK HAYES (10:51.374)
way.

Right, or were they afraid?

MARK HAYES (11:03.681)
or were they?

MARK HAYES (11:07.746)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (11:17.077)
didn't dive in on this, you know?

MARK HAYES (11:20.834)
Yep, kick the can. Kick the can.

BROCK GANELES (11:24.418)
And most people, know, I'm sure any woman on here would say, old boys club, right? Taking care of each other. Looking out for each other.

MARK HAYES (11:29.708)
Right. Right.

All right, let's get to ICE. Minneapolis, it's still going down. People are still being, you know, disappeared. But now what we're seeing is, hold on a second, not in my backyard. No community wants these ICE detention facilities in their backyards. Howard County, as I saw a bite last night,

from Howard County right outside of Baltimore. Beautiful bedroom community of Baltimore. A lot of upwardly mobile. I can't believe they were even going to put one in Howard County. It's that nice. reminds you of Westchester when you drive through it. And the Howard County County Executive. Absolutely not. We're not going to have it here. You know, and then the Richmond, Virginia. Can't get one there.

you're seeing protests, you know, in Kansas City. They said no, can't come here, you know, Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City, red states. They're saying no. So, you know, look, I'm not surprised, right? Nobody wants this nonsense coming to their town. And the Mad King can't seem to read the room, which is a good thing.

Because you know come November if we have elections He's still talking about you know all the fuckery that he can engage in and he's you know Trying to see where the line in the sand is But Yeah, if he keeps it up, I mean which he will because Undoubtedly, he's got to cover up the Epstein files. He can't let people sit around talking about that. So You know, he's gonna keep doing stupid shit and the Republicans are gonna get wiped out

MARK HAYES (13:32.696)
come midterms if we're allowed to have those elections and he doesn't go around snatching ballot boxes like he did down here in Atlanta.

BROCK GANELES (13:40.962)
Well, I see why any politician doesn't want to one of these, you know, concentration camps in their district because they know that the public sentiment is a good 70 % plus against ICE right now. So they're for, you know, they've lost the entire messaging, right? No one believes that it's just a law enforcement effort anymore, right? Like they've lost all credibility. So no one wants it in the district because they know if it comes to their district and they are for it, if they're not vocally against it, right.

MARK HAYES (13:53.698)
Yes, sir.

BROCK GANELES (14:09.813)
they're going to probably get voted out of office because the public's just not having it. So I don't know where they're going to go. They're probably going to have to go to like the most rural of red areas and poverty stricken areas where in essence it's going to be like a bribe. Like, look, we're going to, you know, like that town that, you know, where everyone in the town got fired, you know, maybe it be like, well if we put a detention center here, you know, maybe we'll, you know,

MARK HAYES (14:32.344)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (14:36.91)
and get you some abs.

BROCK GANELES (14:37.203)
employ a whole bunch of people or somehow they'll fund their way to getting some community to be willing to get it or they're just going to jam it down some communities throats, right? They're just going to buy the property and they're just going to show up with buses of people, right? And everyone will be pissed, but they're going to say, who gives a shit and Trump will pretend like they're happy about it.

MARK HAYES (15:00.824)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (15:07.359)
right? He'll just lie, he'll just lie his way through it. But I don't feel like Stephen Miller is going to slow down. Either just going to push their way through it and piss off ultimately more red districts because a blue district will go eat rip shit, right? Like I don't see how they're going to put it in a blue district in any way, shape or form.

MARK HAYES (15:07.64)
Right.

MARK HAYES (15:26.638)
No, no, you can forget it. You know, they've detained 75,000 immigrants, right? As of mid January, up from 40,000 when Trump took office in January. According to, that's just according to the feds. And so we don't know if that's a true number or not, right? Because the, what was the quota? 3000 a day?

and they've been at it for what? 10 months, 11 months? You know, it didn't take long for them to ramp this shit up. So I don't know if I even believe that number, 75,000. So the ICE facilities out there have doubled. You know, again, warehousing human beings for profit. I mean, it's getting more disgusting.

BROCK GANELES (16:22.229)
Yeah, a lot of them are kids. got we got measles running rampant through one of the facilities. A lot of people dying in custody, right? There's inhumane conditions. I guess that doesn't even count to people then that have been deported then, right? You're just giving a number of the people that are still in. You know, the US border is being warehoused for now. I've never I mean, I don't think I've seen a

MARK HAYES (16:39.288)
Correct.

MARK HAYES (16:47.629)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (16:52.701)
An issue moves quickly in a direction of negative sentiment as this. I'm almost trying to think like after the George Floyd murder, like there was a big change in sentiment, maybe for police brutality and qualified immunity, right? was none of these things, not much changed, right? But yeah, but a pretty, you know, a pretty big, you know, a pretty good swing.

MARK HAYES (17:15.414)
Right, we still have qualified community.

BROCK GANELES (17:21.857)
in sentiment. But this one may, you know, has been really quick, right? And it didn't happen necessarily in LA or in Chicago. It was like building, been building and building. But as soon as they hit the ground in Minneapolis and as soon as they Renee Good got shot, right, this this meter has has absolutely switched. But the politicians, you know, we're going to see, right, because they they funded everything in the budget except DHS. And now we're going to have this fight.

MARK HAYES (17:41.141)
Absolutely.

BROCK GANELES (17:52.234)
I mean, Kristi Noem says she's going to make them wear cameras. We'll see if that's a lie or not, or does it matter? we ever going to see the footage? And how strong are the Dems going to be to play this current advantage in terms of masking? Like Tom Homan's arguing so hard that they have to be masked because otherwise they'll be doxed. But no one else in American society has to worry about

MARK HAYES (18:02.945)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (18:21.973)
doing their jobs, right? And being known for who they are in the job they do, right? Our military is not masked. Our law enforcement is not masked, right? DEA agents aren't running around masked, right? No one is wearing masks except for the ICE agents. So just, you know, I mean, it just tells you that

MARK HAYES (18:22.99)
Right.

Right.

MARK HAYES (18:34.082)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (18:42.774)
in Yahoo's. Right.

BROCK GANELES (18:48.865)
they're hiding something. Right? And what they're hiding is who these people are because once we see who they are, we're going to realize they're the worst of the worst. We're going to start identifying them and we're going to see that they're basically this neo Nazi militia of three percenters and proud boys and the like. So I'm just hoping the, I'm hoping the Dems fight fucking tooth and nail on, that unmasking issue.

MARK HAYES (18:50.446)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (18:57.781)
Exactly.

MARK HAYES (19:07.468)
Right.

MARK HAYES (19:16.374)
Yeah, yeah. They've got to push that. No, I don't. I don't have a lot of faith. Yeah, I just don't.

BROCK GANELES (19:18.177)
Do think they will? Do you think they will? Okay.

BROCK GANELES (19:28.085)
Chuck Schumer is gonna get extra training, right? He'll get some extra training sessions.

MARK HAYES (19:30.626)
Yeah, an extra training and then send out another tersely worded letter. So that's his specialty. Thanks, Chuckles, for nothing. I wanted to talk about the celebrities speaking out after the Grammys. I decided to take a look at Bruce's, the Boss's music video dedicated to Alex Paredi, the streets in Minneapolis.

Through the winter's ice and cold, down Nicollet Avenue, a city aflame fought fire and ice neath an occupier's boots. King Trump's private army from the DHS guns belted to their coats came to Minneapolis to enforce the law or so their story goes. I mean, he's pulling no punches and I love it. you know, here's the thing though, Brock.

You know, I wanted Bruce to do a song, you know, when Trayvon Martin was unalived. Tamir Rice was unalived. Laquan McDonald was unalived. And look, no one, no one thinks what happened to Renee Goode or Alex Pretti was deserved or called for or anything but.

what it was, which is absolutely incorrigible and inhumane and ridiculous, right? But what we can't figure out on the Black Hand side is, you know, what's bringing y'all out now, right? We've been neighbors, I've had white neighbors in every city I've lived in, right? And there hasn't been.

We've been saying this stuff's been going on with the police forever. Forever, we just didn't have it on video. Now we got it on video. And again, this is why you're seeing that hesitation from the black community to get out there, march, protest, be loud. You know, I referred you to little baby.

MARK HAYES (21:59.039)
after the George Floyd in his song, bigger than black and white, right? And in his song, he actually points out the fact that all white's not racist, right? He gets it. He understands it. It's bigger than black and white. And what he's saying in his song is it's about the system. And what I'm saying with Bruce's song is I love the lyrics. It's a good piece of music, great song.

You know, we've been dealing with these rubber bullets and you know, the protests and you know, so white America is kind of new to this. And what you're seeing is kind of bothersome because we, we, we're Americans too. And we wanted you to feel this righteous indignation when we were unalived, when we were, when we were struggling in the streets.

And, you know, while we did get some, we always have some. See Loki, Loki Mulholland. I'll send you his link on on LinkedIn, who is an activist. He's an he's he's a member of a predominantly African-American fraternity. And he is looked at as a rock star when he shows up at our events.

Matter of fact, I was lucky enough to get a picture with him in Tampa at our conclave, at our grand conclave. ran into him. you know, we have got to learn to look deeper at our, like you were talking about, our neighbors. Let's look at all of our neighbors, right? The Black ones too. And I think,

You know, because I'm hearing that more and more now. Right? You know, where was white America when we were suffering?

BROCK GANELES (24:07.937)
It's a great question. It's one of the things that I've learned the most about doing this podcast over the last year. I think white America either didn't believe black people because they didn't believe that the police could have faith in the police and couldn't believe that they'd be doing these things. Right. So we believed, you know, in essence, the lies like, he had a gun on him or I was, you know, I thought I was under threat. Right. Either that or.

didn't want to believe, right? Just willful ignorance. Some people necessarily didn't, you know, kind of didn't care. But there's no doubt that white America, for the first time in my life, is truly having their rights and liberties taken away in a systematic way. And I know you could say not all white people are racist.

MARK HAYES (24:40.247)
Mm-hmm.

MARK HAYES (24:58.018)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (25:04.479)
You know, I think we're all racist and then it just depends on who has the power, who has the power dynamic. We know we're all tribal in one way or another, but you know, who has the power dynamic in a certain situation really kind of dictates how people use their tribalism and all that. So. Every white person has been a part of the system and has had a chance to in some small or maybe bigger ways impact it.

and we all rolled along. So, yeah, we didn't we didn't listen or care enough when it was the others who were getting their liberties taken away, lives taken away on unfairly, you know, killed, injured because it wasn't affecting us. And we didn't believe the worst of those around us that there were, you know, so many, you know.

MARK HAYES (25:43.053)
Mmm.

MARK HAYES (25:52.694)
Right. Right.

BROCK GANELES (26:02.683)
evil characters with evil intent in positions of power that we had given them and voted them into. And, and, you know, in essence, the public was the one that was protecting and serving, right? We were protecting and serving the police versus them protecting and serving, right? We were, we were, you know, the fact that we have qualified immunity and that that is a part of the law.

MARK HAYES (26:09.665)
Yes.

MARK HAYES (26:21.495)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (26:31.411)
and gives that much power to an institution and terrible, right? And then we played, cause now with ice, we're like, wait a second, they can't just shoot anyone and get away with it. But we've been letting police to, we've codified that in the police departments. We just broke that maybe five years ago, not formally, but now finally, you know, we were recognizing that

MARK HAYES (26:35.65)
Terrible.

BROCK GANELES (26:55.393)
There is that that blue wall of silence isn't enough. We can't just let the police get away with everything, right? There was a minor awakening on that front. But yeah, a white America, we're all complicit in this. We're kind of getting what we, you know, sadly what we deserve right now. And now we're going to have to fight our way out of this. We're going to have to find allies in the black and brown communities and figure out how to make that our

MARK HAYES (27:01.24)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (27:24.673)
neighbors, allies of ours in the fight against white supremacy. So now we have to fight. We're to have the message and we're going to have to make some credible, credible promises about the future. Right. There's a lot to do. But you know what? That's because we're basically in a fucking civil war. Yeah, there's a lot to do. Guess you know, you know, no one's shedding a tear for us. This is the position we got ourselves into.

MARK HAYES (27:37.998)
You're right.

MARK HAYES (27:44.888)
No doubt. No doubt.

MARK HAYES (27:50.413)
Nope.

BROCK GANELES (27:52.834)
And this is now how we have to figure our way out of it. And there's no easy way out of it. We're to have to do it economically. We're going to have to do it on the streets. And we're going to have to inspire Black America.

Latino America Native American America to like

MARK HAYES (28:14.03)
Right. Every, every, every, yes.

BROCK GANELES (28:16.987)
come along with us when every one of those groups is kind of like, huh, kind of treated us like shit ever since we've been here.

MARK HAYES (28:24.596)
Yeah, I mean, you know, I can go back to the George Floyd protests and it was the first time I actually had a chance to participate in a protest. I've been there in a, you know, news gathering capacity before, but actually participating in one. And I remember it was a white family with some young kids that were, you know, marching with us. And I just, you know, I just said,

you know, what brings you guys out? They just, you know, we want our kids to know this is wrong. And you know, we want our kids to grow up in a better place. And I said, well, thank you, you know, thank you for coming. And you know, thank you for being here and showing your support. means, it means every, you know, here I am five years later still talking about it, right? It means so much. Because while it seems like a small gesture,

It's bigger than they realize. Because, and I know I always give you the hockey analogy, right? What kind of dad would I be if I say, watch out for white people, and drop you off at hockey practice, right? Like my son's gonna be looking over his shoulder all night, he never gonna get a puck, right? Cause he's watching out for white people, right? That's not parenting. Most people don't believe it when I tell them Newark, New Jersey police.

didn't fire a shot in 2020. Didn't fire a shot. None of their officers discharged their service weapon. So we're not animals, right? As a community. But that is the, know, and we've got to have this discussion too, Brock, you know, the way the media portrays the black and brown experience in the US. Black, brown, Asian as well.

BROCK GANELES (30:22.529)
Yeah, but more black brown in terms of a threat, right? Asians didn't get painted with them as being threatening to white people. Definitely black people. And then to a letter, sir, extent, you know, South American, Latin Americans, black people the most, right? Like just from the, from the get go from the slavery days. But as we go into that, just one thought popped in my head is just want to get out before I forget it. Just, you know, maybe the George Floyd protest really

MARK HAYES (30:22.926)
MARK HAYES (30:31.212)
Right.

MARK HAYES (30:39.15)
Right. Right.

BROCK GANELES (30:52.075)
prepared Minneapolis for this moment because white people had gotten out there on the streets for someone else. And then now here we come around years later and maybe it got into their DNA a little bit more than other places in the country where it didn't hit home to them because they already seen the system.

MARK HAYES (30:58.712)
Yes, they did.

BROCK GANELES (31:18.561)
kill a black man, a white person, kill a black man and everyone else stand around and feel helpless while they watched one of their neighbors, you know, get killed on video. think, I think it, you know, prepared them for the moment. Maybe that's why it was such a mistake of ice going in there because they're fighting the hardest because it's not their first fight or maybe the last time they didn't fight, they just marched and this time they amped it up like they're ready to, cause now they're seeing the white guys.

MARK HAYES (31:44.43)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (31:47.078)
I don't want say just the white guys because it was really sad to see that the two shooters of Alex Preti were two Latin Americans, right? Two Hispanic guys. They've been in border patrol for eight and 10 years. Like, come on, guys, why is this your fucking job? and what do you like? Why are you doing this massed up? And so I was disappointed in that because to me, there should be the only people in ICE left should be three percenters and Proud Boys.

MARK HAYES (31:53.708)
Respect. Yeah. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (32:02.476)
Right.

MARK HAYES (32:13.315)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (32:15.457)
Like everyone else should have like walked away from the job and found something else to do.

MARK HAYES (32:15.712)
Right. Howdy.

And that's also what we need to dedicate a show to too, is how are you, how are the people that were already a part of this organization, this government agency, so willing to go out and do this work, right? Like I'd love to know how many of these guys have been on, you know, the ICE rolls, you know, prior to getting hired by the Trumpsters.

BROCK GANELES (32:43.861)
Think of the shit they were doing to people on the border, right? Like the atrocities they may have, must've been doing on the border that we just kind of looked the other way on as Americans. Cause we're like, you know, you know, they're looking out for us because they're always playing into white people's fear. Even just today, Trump was talking about crime again, right? Cause the white racist is going to always go back to that and play the crime card and the fear card and we're

MARK HAYES (32:46.954)
Exactly. Exactly.

MARK HAYES (32:56.194)
Well, end.

Right.

MARK HAYES (33:08.077)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (33:13.057)
protecting you messaging. They're trying to get to that white woman and men, particularly in the suburbs, right? Who has the fear, right? Because people live in cities. They don't think that way, right? Like they're you're in a melting pot already, right? No, go ahead.

MARK HAYES (33:19.66)
Right. In the birds. Yep.

MARK HAYES (33:28.554)
right. Did you see, I'm sorry to butt in, did you see the testimony today from the woman who survived the five gunshots from the ICE agent and

BROCK GANELES (33:40.257)
only saw the one quote from her where she mentioned his name and said, hope, you know, this ain't doxing. He shot me five times or something like that. What else was in there?

MARK HAYES (33:48.023)
Right. He sent out a text message and says, hey, boys, I fired five rounds and put seven holes in her. Put that one in your books, As if it's Those are the kind of people we have in that agency. No compassion, right? No feeling for others. They're not trying to get to know their neighbors. They're trying to execute Americans.

BROCK GANELES (34:01.282)
That was to his coworkers, his friends, coworkers, yeah.

MARK HAYES (34:18.38)
This was an American citizen. I don't care what kind of accent she had. This was an American citizen. And that's the disgusting part about what's going on now. We're doing this to Americans, to American. And we've been doing it. We just didn't care enough to do something.

BROCK GANELES (34:40.373)
We didn't care. We still don't care about the prison system. We don't still don't care about the justice system throwing, filling up prisons left and right. We'd still mean, you know, I watched that, that Alabama prison movie the other night, right? It's still, played into the fear of everyone in the community and you just got more agents. You got to build more facilities and you know, you got to crack down on people and they don't deserve human treatment because they did something

MARK HAYES (34:45.037)
Yeah, boo-boo.

MARK HAYES (34:49.006)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (34:54.402)
which was horrific.

BROCK GANELES (35:07.425)
society decided they did something wrong, but we also know all the way back to who gets arrested, who gets prosecuted, who gets found guilty, who gets larger sentences, longer sentences. mean, the system is flawed, I was gonna say. It's fucked up. If we're gonna have an honest conversation, and we have to come out of this looking at...

MARK HAYES (35:07.564)
Wrong.

MARK HAYES (35:26.594)
Bye.

Okay.

BROCK GANELES (35:34.207)
those types of things and going, Hey, the same fear mongering that was used to send ice Gestapo mass militias around the country to protect everyone is the same game that's been played our whole lives in, in, what we quote, call our justice system. you know, I mean, we have so many problems to solve coming out of this.

MARK HAYES (35:55.607)
Isn't that?

BROCK GANELES (36:03.297)
And yeah, we, you know, yeah, Bruce Springsteen didn't write any songs when, you know, what's his name? Rice in Cleveland got shot, right? Or when Tavon Martin got shot, right? Maybe it didn't resonate with him in the same way as this has because he's a white person. maybe just for some reason, it's so much harder for us to get over that barrier when it's not someone who looks like us. Hey, look, it's two men, right?

MARK HAYES (36:16.002)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (36:31.757)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (36:34.293)
I mean, how the fuck did so many like why have we never believed the women our whole lives? Right. Why do need these Epstein files to fucking prove anything? Right. Like we've had direct testimony from dozens of women on Trump specifically the Me Too movement. Why was that movement even have to happen? Because people weren't believed. Like, why don't we just acknowledge, you know, we have a lot of predatory men in this society.

MARK HAYES (36:42.165)
Exactly.

MARK HAYES (36:50.04)
from these women.

MARK HAYES (37:03.628)
Hell yeah!

BROCK GANELES (37:03.733)
and chances are you know they did some shit right so like you know but maybe us as men weren't as sympathetic to that our whole lives because it wasn't it didn't affect us

MARK HAYES (37:06.86)
Yep, they are who they are.

MARK HAYES (37:15.736)
Right.

Right, right. Before we get out of here, I got a quick hit for you. And it has to do with this latest batch of emails that came out. And there was an interesting post on social media from a young African-American woman. And the post simply said, the one time racism saved my people from a black woman. And Aaliyah the White,

on her social media posted that there were no black girls allowed on Epstein Island. And there's a quote from one of his emails. know, Jeff is asking this person to find some friends. Jeff wanted young, fresh meat, girls, virgins. He told X, don't bring me any N words.

So I thought it was interesting when I saw the survivors all on Capitol Hill, there was the one African-American woman and there were a couple of Latino women. But yeah, the rest were, you know, had a look to them, right? Blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, white women with this kind of classic look to them. And it's so sad.

that most of them came from broken families, so they were easy to take advantage of. And that gets us back to the classism, right? And the socioeconomics of this disgusting cabal, right? Yeah, they're poor by trash, nobody cares about them. Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (39:05.697)
yeah, poor white people are slightly up the rung but like, they're treated like shit also

MARK HAYES (39:11.722)
Right, right. And I just found it so fascinating, know, that, I mean, you know, even one of the most disgusting and vile human beings, you know, on the face of this earth, you know, was as racist as he could possibly be. And, you know, didn't care. Like, he was so...

driven by his deviant, but it had bounds. I don't want them, I just wanna violate these. mean, it's disgusting on so many levels, but I wanted to get your feedback on that, your reaction to that.

BROCK GANELES (39:58.549)
Yeah, it's interesting, right? For Trump, right, they all had to look like a Ivanka, right? They were under Ivanka lookalikes, Yeah, and you think about lot of them were from Eastern Europe. But yeah, the racism even trumped everything else in terms of what their ideal rape victim was, right? They wanted it to have a certain look. This is definitively a white male power.

MARK HAYES (40:04.289)
Right.

MARK HAYES (40:16.142)
Ugh.

BROCK GANELES (40:24.725)
group right it became a circle that continued to grow as more people are drawn into it. Yeah it's a racist group there's no black men you mentioned Sammy Socie the day I was the first person of color that I'd heard about in the entire time on the Epstein files.

MARK HAYES (40:29.442)
All right.

MARK HAYES (40:36.918)
And Jay-Z. And Jay-Z too.

BROCK GANELES (40:39.841)
Oh Jay-Z is in there. Well as that circle got bigger and bigger and more people got drawn into it I guess there would be some but like certainly the core members it's still like 98 99 percent white people. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (40:41.942)
Yeah, but those are two.

MARK HAYES (40:54.088)
yo yeah yeah yeah and and disgusting either way you cut it yeah bro so all right bro you got a quick hit for me or we out of here

BROCK GANELES (41:06.113)
A quick hit we're going to hit the road is I want to thank our subscribers who've kind of joined us. This happens to be the one year anniversary of the podcast Two Men in Black and White, an honest conversation. We just got that notification from YouTube today. We were surprised because we actually didn't think we had started doing it on February 3rd. We thought it was.

MARK HAYES (41:15.758)
Woo!

MARK HAYES (41:20.75)
Yes sir!

MARK HAYES (41:26.051)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (41:30.813)
mid to late February we didn't realize that we were actually already losing our minds about Trump 2.0 after only two weeks after the inauguration and it was the frustration of what we had seen just in that window of time that triggered Mark to actually reach out to me and say hey you want to hop on a zoom and talk about what's going on my wife says I gotta talk to someone else and certainly my wife was like I'm sick of you ranting at the tv

MARK HAYES (41:52.366)
You're right.

BROCK GANELES (41:59.445)
go please go talk to someone else and it started this whole thing. So we thank any subscribers, really anyone who's viewed at any time, certainly anyone who puts a message on the board and gets into the conversation. We certainly do not have all the answers. In fact, we're still searching for them, but we do appreciate the viewership, the support, the arguments, the funny one-liners on the chat board, but just, you know.

MARK HAYES (42:02.295)
Okay.

MARK HAYES (42:14.4)
Right.

MARK HAYES (42:23.436)
Yep.

without.

BROCK GANELES (42:27.413)
the support in any way, or form.

MARK HAYES (42:30.038)
No doubt, Congratulations, bro. We made one year.

BROCK GANELES (42:34.749)
Yeah, got through. TikTok didn't give us a year. TikTok only saw about a week's worth of clips and banned us, but YouTube has hung in there with us. So we got one platform that's still willing to feature a black and a white guy having a conversation. Who knew that'd be so controversial? Only in America.

MARK HAYES (42:37.591)
That's awesome!

MARK HAYES (42:45.217)
Yes sir.

MARK HAYES (42:48.886)
Alright.

Congratulations, let's go celebrate. Yes, Sounds good.

BROCK GANELES (42:59.585)
All right. Thank you. All right, Mark. I'll talk to tomorrow. We'll start here too. All right.