2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

MARK HAYES (00:01.514)
Alright ladies and gentlemen welcome back to another exciting edition of Two Minute Black and White and Honest Conversation. And we want to ask you folks honestly how bad do you have to suck at your job to get fired by Donald Trump? I mean you've got to be like the shit stain of all shit stains because you know Donald Trump is not one who is known for being successful in anything.

much less the presidency, he couldn't make money in a casino. We've talked about that a thousand and one times here on two MIBWs. So Brock and Ellis joins us from right outside the beautiful confines of the upper Hudson River Valley, right outside New York City. know, Kristi Noem treated Americans the way she treated her dogs. She killed them.

And that's going to be her legacy, as as I'm concerned.

Brock Ganeles (01:06.208)
Noma's terrible at her job, right? But that's not why she got fired, right? It's not that a couple of beloved, valuable white Americans got gunned down in broad daylight in Minneapolis. That didn't get her fired. She survived that. The fact that she

MARK HAYES (01:11.979)
Right.

MARK HAYES (01:25.358)
Mm-mm.

Brock Ganeles (01:31.85)
signed contracts for millions of dollars with her crony and the husband that didn't get her fired. The fact that she would her, her like her ex partner or ex no, her ex communications manager. I was going to about that. was about to get to that. The fact that she got the $2 million plane with the

MARK HAYES (01:39.726)
A cloning.

Her lover?

MARK HAYES (01:50.282)
Okay.

Brock Ganeles (01:58.59)
Champagne room in the back that didn't get her fired right ultimately it was Like we don't know the exact reason that ended it right It's the fact that she said that Trump had authorized some money for some advertising But really I think in the end she got fired because she didn't perform well enough on the stage anymore in front of Congress Right the fact is she was fumbling and bumbling and wasn't putting on a good TV and TV show anymore

which we know Trump values more than anything more than anything else so yeah legacy is gonna be she killed a dog and she killed some Americans but the sad reality is that's not how why Trump lost faith in her

MARK HAYES (02:32.022)
More than anything. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (02:48.014)
Bracket, you don't think it has anything to do with a quarter billion, well, $143 million being funneled to a company that was created eight days after she took the position. That's when the company was formed.

Brock Ganeles (03:05.787)
I mean, maybe, yeah, but Don Jr's been doing, Don Jr has gotten his hand into a bunch of companies that got some huge DOD contracts and they've been around for only a hot minute as well. I think it's not that she did that. It's that she didn't cut Trump in on it. It's not that he's, you think Trump's so appalled that there's corruption going on in his administration? No.

MARK HAYES (03:24.866)
That could be it.

MARK HAYES (03:31.37)
No! No!

Brock Ganeles (03:33.235)
But he wasn't making money off of it. Someone else was making money off of it. So yeah, I'm sure he wasn't happy with that.

MARK HAYES (03:39.798)
Yeah, but here's the thing. Don Jr., again, when we talk about shit stains, he's another shit stain in American history, but he's quiet about it. Once we get the paperwork and somebody reports on it, then it kind of goes away with the 24-hour news cycle and the attention span of a gnat of the American public. He's not raking up a whole lot of noise about it.

Kristi Noem has been in the news every day since the first of the year with major shit, right? I mean, like the worst, the least of her issues was her missing blanket that she and her lover had rolled around in on the Coast Guard jet and did who knows what in right in front of her husband while he's sitting behind her.

Jamie Raskin is questioning her about her indiscretions and dalliances, you know, with the help, you know, but she and Corey have been getting it on for a long time. So, you know, I guess they're a throuple. I don't know. Why is the husband still following around, you know, like a sad puppy dog? I mean, geez, have some sack, will ya?

Brock Ganeles (05:02.835)
I guess it's sort of encouraging that if you have enough of these congressional hearings and you, you know, pop the bubble of these incompetent Trump leaders and embarrass Trump enough and make enough, generate enough negative headlines, even he who never wants to admit a mistake.

will start to get bothered and maybe make some changes. Although it's kind of funny that he didn't officially fire Trump today. He gave her some, some title for some division of the government that doesn't even exist yet. The shield of alliances or something, some sort of like, you know, comic book type of title. Yeah, it was kind of, it was kind of comical even how it played out, but we'll take it as a victory. I don't think it really changes anything about how

MARK HAYES (05:29.838)
BOOM

MARK HAYES (05:45.048)
This is making shit up.

Brock Ganeles (05:55.346)
how DHS is going to operate and ICE is going to operate unfortunately. Markwayne Mullin is just another Yahoo who will fill the seat and execute Stephen Miller's marching orders. So I really don't see any fundamental change in ICE's activities.

MARK HAYES (06:16.93)
You know what I think the best part was?

He fired her on true social while she was in the middle of a speech somewhere talking about some meetings she had scheduled.

Brock Ganeles (06:27.483)
I didn't know that. Is that how I... my God.

MARK HAYES (06:31.438)
I love that part of the whole such a waitian. Because she deserves it.

Brock Ganeles (06:36.787)
He's such a pussy. He has his TV show where he fires people face to face, but like, what? He didn't even have the gumption to call her up and have a conversation when firing someone. He's such a piece of shit. Even when he does something that we're happy about, he's fucking, he's such a clown.

MARK HAYES (06:44.99)
No, Marity.

MARK HAYES (06:54.187)
my god, yes!

MARK HAYES (06:58.508)
He's trash, man. He's trash. And you know, it's funny too because, you know, this, this, this is the guy that MAGA thinks is strong. He's a strong man. You fired a woman on social media. What kind of turd are you? You know, you fired a woman on social media. You couldn't even go to her and say, Hey, this ain't working.

Brock Ganeles (07:18.045)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (07:27.357)
not working out. Couldn't place a phone call. Couldn't place a phone call and have that like, I mean, MAGA will put up with anything, right? But you know how Bush League that is. Like, I mean, you don't have the balls to call someone up and say, Hey, I got to let you go. It's not working out as a leader and a manager. And yet the rest of them. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (07:29.687)
Nah.

MARK HAYES (07:36.128)
yeah.

Yeah.

MARK HAYES (07:51.063)
ho, I gotta stop you right there. Who said he was a leader? it, what? Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Did you say that?

Brock Ganeles (08:02.399)
The president is the leader of the free world. That's what we used to call the president the United States the leader of the free world. That's how we used to.

MARK HAYES (08:09.333)
my God. Can you believe that?

Brock Ganeles (08:12.585)
describe the job.

MARK HAYES (08:14.262)
Right, right. So, so, so, you know, look, how long does it take to recover the, the, the entity known as Homeland Security? We are more insecure right now than we've ever been. Kanye would say, I feel very insecure because the terrorist level threat, what were those levels, right? Orange.

red? We gotta be at fire engine red right about now. my god. We gotta be at beyond break glass level.

Brock Ganeles (08:44.627)
Wait, it's gonna be flashing. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (08:51.603)
They buried that story of that shooter in Austin pretty quick, right? Even though the guy had a, you know, basically wearing an Iranian sweatshirt and, know.

MARK HAYES (08:59.446)
Right, right. You see how fast they made that go away, right? Cause who's on the job? Cash Patel, right? He's out here setting up SWAT units to protect his girlfriend who nobody's ever heard of. Why would anybody be going after her? We don't even know what song she sings. Gosh almighty bro. what?

Brock Ganeles (09:16.383)
I still don't know her name. I still don't know her name.

But one of the good outgrowths of no, I'm getting fired just today. I think the Homeland security committee, you the Congress has subpoenaed and called in Bondi to, yeah, to come in front of the Congress again. So I think they see like they kind of chipped away at no five Republicans voted for that for Bondi to come in. This is all Epstein file related. So she's going to have to come back in as you recall her last.

MARK HAYES (09:34.188)
Pamby Joe. Hello.

Sure.

Brock Ganeles (09:54.39)
What are we what are we calling this her last? Seating her last viewing yeah was an absolute shit show and I'm guessing they're gonna come at her even harder this time Because we haven't seen shit on the Epstein files in like at least a month and in fact They're taking down some of the files from online. So like it's been yeah, it's it's a roadblock

MARK HAYES (09:58.552)
Shouting session. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (10:04.563)
Abject failure.

MARK HAYES (10:08.482)
They better.

MARK HAYES (10:13.186)
Mm-hmm.

MARK HAYES (10:16.696)
Continuously.

Brock Ganeles (10:20.607)
So that's going to be interesting.

MARK HAYES (10:21.112)
But see you again.

Again, Brock, that's what Iran was about, right? That's what the Venezuela deal was about, right? Let's go ahead and take down these files while everybody's looking over here at the little shiny thing, right? Don't look over here. the Epstein files are disappearing. We're not dumb. Do they understand that people in newsrooms and, well...

in independent newsrooms are sitting there watching this stuff disappear in front of their very eyes as they're reading it, it's going away. It's going away as they are reading it, Brock. And, you know, again, they're pissing on us, telling us it's raining. We're not falling for the okie doke. And, you know, the banana in the tailpipe is just not going to work anymore on the American people. And look, is it going to take

an international or foreign terrorist attack for Americans to say, okay, what do we have? We need 2500 or 3000 people killed by Iranian terrorists in order for us to say, okay, that's enough with these idiots. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. Do we have to get to that? Because you know why I brought because it's happened before C9 11.

Brock Ganeles (11:47.232)
Well, I just worry if when incidents happen, we just get more belligerent and we'll just up the ante in terms of the firepower and, you know, crank up the war, not say, wow, we were stupid. Why do we even get ourselves involved in this? You know, that's rarely the reaction, certainly not right off the bat. But I mean, if we're segueing from ICE and DHS to international again, I mean, is there anything coming positive

MARK HAYES (12:04.034)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (12:17.185)
coming out of this whole Iran situation, right? We sunk one of their boats, we let all the people drown, so like we don't, you know, once again, our human rights are a debacle. The war spread more and more to Lebanon and...

We had to turn to Ukraine to ask them for help with their drones because we're having difficulty shooting down Iranian, Iranian drones. So after all the machinations of us saying that we will not support Ukraine anymore and making them basically beg, beg for, for our help.

MARK HAYES (12:56.397)
Now we need their help.

MARK HAYES (13:01.102)
Don't you love it?

Brock Ganeles (13:01.695)
We have had to turn around now because they have more advanced sophisticated anti-drone technology because they've had to create it because they've been at war for 40 years.

MARK HAYES (13:12.834)
Rock, say that again. Ukraine has more advanced anti-drone technology than who? Who is we?

Brock Ganeles (13:20.753)
And we do. We. The American, America, the Department of War. I don't even know if there is a we anymore. I mean, it's hard to even say because I almost don't even feel like that's my team. That that those that army in, you know, the.

MARK HAYES (13:27.31)
You

MARK HAYES (13:32.398)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (13:39.977)
whatever ocean they're in, right? That army that's in the Middle East right now, I don't necessarily feel connected to that country that's doing, that's fighting that war.

MARK HAYES (13:51.789)
Right, right. I don't feel connected to Pete Hexeth either. There is nothing about that clown that signals confidence and expertise in the former drunken womanizing morning show host. know, no shade to morning show host as a former one, right? dude, it's...

That point you made right there, the fact that we have to go to Ukraine and ask for their expertise indicates the fact we no longer have the expertise in the military sector. We know we don't have it in healthcare because we stopped doing any research under the RFK crazy, you know, lead, you don't need a measles shot. by the way, go get your measles shot kind of ideology.

What the fuck is going on here? And Americans are still riding around in their little soccer buses and their soccer mom SUVs, gas guzzling and shit, getting Capri Suns and orange slices for the soccer game for little Joey today and nobody's paying a goddamn attention, right? Until we start building these massive warehouses again and start warehousing the others, right?

And others will get us down. Eventually, others, Brock, will get us down to only WASP like Americans are left. Is that where we're headed? We're all gonna get locked down?

Brock Ganeles (15:30.079)
That's where some people want to want to take us, right? That's where Stephen Miller and his crew want to take us. That's where project 2025 told us they were going to take. They were going to take us. know, I mean, the frustration level of America's is increasing. Their response to polls is more negative, but the actual actions still are.

MARK HAYES (15:32.792)
Come on, Steve, he's Stephen Miller.

MARK HAYES (15:42.648)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (15:58.388)
you know, are coming up short, right? We still, we're still not, you know, we're still not fighting enough on our own turf. There's still too much talk about the midterms and you know, like you said, maybe it's, it's not really, maybe until the economy even really cracks that there's going to be more outrage at home.

MARK HAYES (16:00.87)
my god, yes.

MARK HAYES (16:22.262)
Yeah, yeah.

Brock Ganeles (16:22.823)
It's unfortunate that we can't, you know, I mean, with the weather getting warmer, would think that activity on the streets would start to percolate. I know there's no Kings rally getting organized for later this month, but once again, that's.

I mean, that messaging has to change. Like the no Kings has to change to more like an impeach and remove. Like this has to be, or we're going to shut it down. It has to be, partnered with like another economic, a real economic boycott or a national day of strike where everyone just doesn't go to work and goes and protests. Not something on a Saturday that just maybe interrupts some golf outings, but you know, it doesn't interrupt, you know, business as usual.

MARK HAYES (16:59.758)
nationwide.

MARK HAYES (17:08.27)
I'm hoping for the kidnapping. But I'm not too hopeful on that because they're protecting this guy like he's something special. The guy who walks around shitting himself and smelling like who knows what. I am so disgusted this guy is in leadership in America.

Right, Tom Tillis, when he went off on Kristi Noem and talked about how exceptional American leadership is. Tommy, baby, Tommy, we ain't exceptional no more baby, not with people like, you know, and look, you know, he got on Kristi Noem about her dog and everything and look, I'm cool with him being disgusted with her. Right, but the bottom line, dude, that book was out before you confirmed her.

Okay, that book was out before you said I do with her. Okay. So don't look at her now and wonder why you got, you know, female thuggery.

Brock Ganeles (18:17.235)
Yeah, how she got there. It's like, it's like when, what's her name? What's her name? Kennedy from Louisiana was like all, you know, ripping RFK Jr. new asshole when he could have voted against them and we wouldn't have had RFK Jr. But now they all want to roll along.

MARK HAYES (18:18.998)
Right. You put it there.

MARK HAYES (18:27.31)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (18:33.791)
Cause they're all, they still think Trump dominates the party. And Trump just the other day said that he is MAGA, right? That was his response to MTG where he is MAGA. So whatever he says is MAGA. So he really put the kibosh in there being any other voices in the party. And in his latest salvo, he says he's going to come out and announce which of the Republicans in the runoff in Texas,

MARK HAYES (18:41.08)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (19:00.415)
is going to be, quote, allowed to continue in the race that there'll be no runoff election. He's going to choose between the two of them. Gordon impacts it. And I love it. There's democracy for you, right? Like fucking Game of Thrones trial by combat, right? Like there's no no, we're not going to let the Texas people vote. He's going to step in and his endorsement is going to decide. And the other candidate needs to drop out once Trump tells him to. OK, that's

MARK HAYES (19:09.998)
Yeah, right?

MARK HAYES (19:29.528)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (19:30.369)
That's how MAGA works.

MARK HAYES (19:32.947)
Yeah, Hmm.

Brock Ganeles (19:34.847)
That's not how democracy works.

MARK HAYES (19:37.59)
If we could only get somebody out in front of the White House screaming, you raped her, you murdered her, you killed her, like they did in the Mountain versus Viper, Game of Thrones, season four, episode seven, one of my favorites.

Brock Ganeles (19:52.404)
Well, if only we had political voices that are willing to go out there and go head to head with the president and shout him down on television every night. like a Jasmine Crockett does. oops. she's not electable. we know she's she's too much of a fighter. We need someone who can reach across the aisle and, you know, talk reason to these three time Trump voters.

MARK HAYES (20:06.446)
Oh, too bad. Too bad.

Brock Ganeles (20:22.387)
and try to pull some of them over because that's what it's going to take to win elections going forward. Oops.

MARK HAYES (20:29.526)
I don't think you can get a triple trumper. You think you can get a triple trumper? They triple trumped for a reason.

Brock Ganeles (20:37.085)
No, they're too deep. You're too deep.

MARK HAYES (20:39.116)
Yeah, I mean, they're in it. They're in it to win it. They're white supremacy all day, every day. What's wrong with you that you're not? I know you're black. Am I not a white supremacist? mean, look, the fuckery is overwhelming at this point. Why are you and I the only ones screaming from the hilltops? And the social media folks, where is

You know, the media doing the deep dive on a company that was formed eight days ago and Christine Ohm and her lover are funneling $150 million to that company. That doesn't seem suspicious. This company has never done business with the American government. It was formed eight days ago.

Brock Ganeles (21:27.731)
Yeah, there's no one left. There's no one left to, to do that kind of investigative journalism, right? There, there's not enough, you know, networks that will even allow their teams to spend their time on that, right? That would be a 60 minutes feature, but not, not in this day and age.

So we've lost that and independent journalists are making the noise, we haven't hit the tipping point yet where the eyeballs are still on the independent media. It's still the traditional media that has most of the eyeballs.

MARK HAYES (22:03.416)
Brock, can I tell you something from 20, 28 years of television news? You will find some of the best lawyers and lawyer ring representing television news and broadcast entities.

Okay, you heard me. I don't understand what they're afraid of. You ever sat for a deposition, Brock? It is, when you talk about getting puckered in pins and needles, it is the worst when you're up there trying to defend one of your broadcast pieces of journalism. And there's a lawyer on the other side trying to pick it apart word for word.

Okay, it's a frightening experience. I've been through two of them. And I'm going to tell you what, I was so impressed with the attorneys that represented the stations that I work for. I was like, my gosh, why are you doing this? Shouldn't you be out somewhere saving the My point is, what are they afraid of? Trump's lawyers suck.

Brock Ganeles (23:12.585)
Maybe they're afraid that they're, but they.

But they may be afraid that their own companies, lawyers won't protect them anymore because their bosses are in bed with Trump, that they won't get that same protection for what they're, you know, what they're out doing and saying, you know, cause the dynamic has changed in terms of who is owning and running. You don't have the Ben Bradleys and like the, like the traditional old school media people who would fight for their rep...

MARK HAYES (23:23.694)
You know, that too.

MARK HAYES (23:31.437)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (23:45.106)
and protect the reporters and fight for truth, right? Those who used to truly believe democracy dies in darkness, but now Bezos owns it and, you know, comments like that are a fraud, right? They're hollow words.

MARK HAYES (23:49.411)
Right.

MARK HAYES (23:54.734)
Dyes in the daylight.

Yeah, I'm really frustrated. Well, as you know, I've turned the television off when it comes to broadcast media and such. I really do think, though, when we talk about the reckoning, we've got to do something about the quality and the fairness of

what's put over the open air and the airways. There has got to be some sort of balance. But that only comes with representation, which we cannot get and that we're struggling to get. See Texas, i.e. the primary on Tuesday. by the way, I don't know if you caught Roland Martin and his breakdown. Roland Martin was extremely

extremely critical of black America, black Texas, right? Because remember what I told you, Texas is demographically blue, 60 % minority, right? But the criticism was where were you? Why didn't you come out to vote? 60 % of those who voted lacked melanin. Those were the white vote. The white voters are coming out.

Brock Ganeles (25:12.831)
What the criticism?

MARK HAYES (25:30.092)
Okay. No matter what they're coming out. There was probably some black folks didn't know the primary was happening, which ain't good, which ain't good. What did I, what was the number I gave you last week, bro? 4 million African-American voting age Texans. 4 million. Right? I mean, look.

You had African Americans, you got Asians, you got Latinos, right? You got Native Americans all in Texas, making up 60 % of the population. Yet, Jasmine Crockett couldn't win an election. Now you tell me, now I know there was some fuckery and some hanky panky going on at the polls. But even if you get, Brock, look at other countries.

They get 80, 90, 95 % coming out to vote. They get hundreds of thousands of people out for protests.

Brock Ganeles (26:24.681)
People gotta turn out. Yeah. Gotta turn out.

MARK HAYES (26:37.134)
What are we doing? See, we've taken it all for granted. We are taking it all for granted. You know why? Because people didn't have to sit at segregated lunch counters. Because people didn't have to use the black fountain. That's what's going on here. People are not remembering the sacrifices that were made.

by people like Jesse Jackson, who was standing on the balcony when Dr. King was murdered, assassinated.

Brock Ganeles (27:13.235)
Yes, this is important.

MARK HAYES (27:13.518)
And who knew where the movement was going after that?

Brock Ganeles (27:16.051)
Yeah, these should be these should be amazingly high turnout elections. Every one of them all over from primaries all the way through to November, if November, even with the voter suppression tactics that are going to go on over here the next eight months still has to be a massively high turnout election. Like everyone has to have a strategy and a plan and basically fight for.

refight for their own right to vote in November because, you know.

The shenanigans started in Texas. We saw it, right? That was like a preview. And that was just, that was kid stuff that they did in Texas. A little precinct shifting. There's going to be so much more aggressive voter suppression over the next eight months. Okay. And that was just a primary. When it gets to be the real game, voter rolls are going to be purged. You name it, right? It's, it's going to go on.

MARK HAYES (28:06.998)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

MARK HAYES (28:16.434)
yeah. Well, the Texas primary, you know, was a run through. What can we get away doing to black folk? How far can we push them?

Brock Ganeles (28:28.831)
I saw that chat comment that just came up about disenfranchised and all that is like, I get that, but being that we all, first of all, you know, I've been bitching about the whole electability thing, right? So now I'm also gonna go after the next, the corollary commentary, which is identity politics, which is we all.

We all exhibit some portion of identity politics, right? Because it's almost like in sports, right? Why did I like John Stockton, a little white point guard, right? That was identity sports fandom, right? Because I saw myself a little bit in it, right? So.

MARK HAYES (28:59.456)
Yes. Yes.

MARK HAYES (29:08.622)
But that's all of us. We like it the way it looks like it. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (29:14.863)
in him. like, it's kind of natural. There's a sort of naturalness to being more comfortable with people that look like you. So identity politics is going to be a part of everyone's voting psychology. So I would just hope when I hear that voters are disenfranchised, that when they go see someone who looks like them, that they should, you know, go support it. It's like Sinners and what's the other one? The Wakanda movie.

We did billions and billions of dollars, right? Because, hey, this movie, I see it, and people went and went multiple times, got off their ass to go watch those movies to support it, right? Well...

MARK HAYES (29:47.67)
Yep, black Panther.

MARK HAYES (29:56.269)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (29:57.596)
You could have, you could find that same motivation to go vote for Jasmine Crockett and not feel disenfranchised in that moment because, because in this moment you're being enfranchised. You're being, you have the chance to see yourself out there. So, I mean, that's something.

That's something that each individual just has to get over if they want change, you know, cause cause in it, you know, as long as we still have a democracy, you can't kind of do it for people, right? Like, so everyone's going to have to get re-motivated to get out there. If you can't do it for Jasmine Crockett, who are you going to get fired up for?

MARK HAYES (30:23.063)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (30:31.16)
Mm-hmm.

MARK HAYES (30:36.684)
I, you know.

Well, I was just going to say, first of all, if you're not fired up for Jasmine, who you getting fired up for? And what have you been doing for the last 10 years that you're not fired up to vote for somebody who represents your interests? What more do I need to say to you to get you to come out to try to save our democracy? You think Trump's got something better for you? Trump ain't got shit for you. I'm here to tell.

The 99 % of Americans, Trump ain't got shit for us. Except, and for you MAGA folks, he got you racism, but you can't eat it. And I know you're hungry.

Brock Ganeles (31:17.875)
Yeah, you don't got anything else. You can't pay for anything else. Everything else in your life sucks and is getting worse. You're losing your farm, you're losing your car, you're losing your healthcare.

MARK HAYES (31:30.158)
Yep. Yep. And what are you going to do then when your hospitals start? When you're losing your meat plant out there in Nebraska and now you're going to lose a couple of hospitals too. When your car gets repossessed because you ain't working and you get sick, how you get into the hospital? You're going to call an ambulance. You know how much that's going to cost you. Woo. I'd hate to see that bill. People don't realize you get a bill when the ambulance comes.

Brock Ganeles (31:57.428)
Yeah, we're to lead the world that we're going to lead the world and go fund me for people's health care. Right. We already do. I mean, that's that's the strategy. Right. Put up a go from me. Can't work for everyone. Yeah. Frustrating times. So my quick hit is, you know, for the viewers may know that I in terms of our division of labor marks the talent and I tend to do the clips.

MARK HAYES (32:02.576)
my god.

MARK HAYES (32:07.884)
Yeah. All right. Give me some quick hints before we get out of here.

Brock Ganeles (32:23.045)
So in doing the clips yesterday, one of the ones that I created was when Mark was talking about how white people need to learn to listen to black people. And I posted it and while I was editing, Mark, do you realize, I don't know if you even watched it today, that I tried to interrupt you twice in 60 seconds.

MARK HAYES (32:41.986)
I saw it.

Brock Ganeles (32:48.551)
While you're trying to tell me, while you're making the point that white people need to listen to black people, I literally tried to cut you off twice so that I could speak. It's almost like it was a comedy clip. I'm watching it going, look at the white guy, which is me trying to interrupt the black guy while he's telling you that white people need to learn how to listen. You got to go back and watch the clip. It's almost comical.

And it just had me thinking like, wow, I'm trying. like, is it me or is it really just so ingrained in us white people that we think that like our voice needs to be heard and we just can't help ourselves but to think that we need to be speaking.

MARK HAYES (33:37.655)
Yeah, I mean, but here's the thing though, brah, know, for so long, for so long, right, this is the way you've grown up, right? It's almost, it is embedded, just like the fear of the police is embedded. I mean, somebody referenced our talk, right? The talk we have to have with our kids when we give them the keys to the car, right? That is just, that,

My father gave me that talk and I'm sure his father gave him a different kind of talk. His father probably said, don't be driving after dark. Right? You know, when I referenced the fraternity, you know, in the eighties and nineties, we go on road trips with the fraternity. In the fifties, when my father was in the frat, he was like, what do mean road trips? We couldn't go on no road trips in the South. We might die. We might not get to our destination.

All right, in the 50s and 60s, driving around the South, driving while, you drive around the South while black at night in the 60s. I mean, it just doesn't happen. you know, look, we've got to do better when it comes to understanding. And that's what this is all about. I was, you know, I've told at least 20 people about our conversation the other day when you said how much you had learned this past year. You know, everything, I mean,

Bro, you'd be shocked at how many people look at me, white people look at me when I say, yeah, whenever we get ready to move and we want to sell our house, we have to take all the pictures down of the black people because we're going to turn off potential white buyers. And they're like, what? And then I ask them, well, have you ever purchased a home from a black family? And they're like, well, we don't know.

We've never seen any pictures of a black family in the house. I'm just saying. You never, right? The one white family we sold the house to, and Lord knows we moved enough times, we didn't go to the closing. Because we were concerned that they might see us and say, I don't know if I want that house now. So look.

Brock Ganeles (35:42.291)
Maybe I did, but never know.

MARK HAYES (36:04.974)
There is a lot to be said for understanding and understanding what other people go through. Right? There's a reason why we were trying to tell y'all about it. Because when we were talking about why folks need to listen, we were talking about the Philando Castilles, right? Abner Louima, right? You know, we were talking about the violence perpetrated.

on black and brown Americans regularly. This wasn't new to us. What was new was these camera phones catching these cops acting a fool, Eric Garner choking him out and all the Laquan McDonald getting mowed down in the street. That's what's new.

Brock Ganeles (36:53.331)
to bring our conversation full circle. That's maybe the one gift that Kristi Noem gave to America was she lied so blatantly about the murders of pretty and good in Minneapolis that she woke up a lot of white people to the fact like, wow, the authorities do fucking lie when they kill people. she kind of, and it was easy to make that connection to like all those.

MARK HAYES (37:05.262)
We have been.

Brock Ganeles (37:23.265)
young black men that have been killed over the years that white people were always like, well, if they just complied or they must have been running or, the, the officer must have felt threatened because why else would they have done it? And, when the police and the police report comes out, you know, the media and everyone else just takes it as gospel. But Kristi Noem lied so bold faced about those murders. She made us realize how easy it is for people in positions of power to lie about their use of power.

MARK HAYES (37:35.638)
Right. Must have paid something.

Brock Ganeles (37:53.138)
So I guess you know America sort of learned the lesson from her Shitty lesson to learn but worthwhile one

MARK HAYES (38:02.83)
Yeah. And you know, when, and when we go right back to it, takes us right back to OJ. Takes us right back to Susan Smith. Remember the black community in South Carolina was on edge in 1994 when Susan Smith declared that she had been carjacked by a black man. Oh, you know what a black man probably did do. Let's go shake down, you know, black South Carolinians.

MARK HAYES (38:32.64)
You know, mean, Brock, I was working in Denver when that happened. And I remember saying to myself, God, I'm glad I don't live in South Carolina, because I probably look just like the dude who did it. Who did it? She did. But see, but that's that's that historical bias, right? That's been put into us. Right. Since the end of slavery. Don't look at the white woman, Emmett Till.

Brock Ganeles (38:46.941)
Yeah, nobody.

Nobody did it.

Brock Ganeles (38:59.391)
I'm gonna tell 14 year old Emmett till

MARK HAYES (39:02.158)
14 year old Emmett Till, open casket so we could see the barbaric nature of hate and racism.

MARK HAYES (39:16.0)
Wow, I'm all fired up. All right, I need some tequila to take the edge off. Good stuff, buddy. Always love talking to you.

Brock Ganeles (39:20.715)
I'm gonna go hit the gym tonight, Mark. Always a pleasure. I'll talk to you tomorrow.

MARK HAYES (39:27.232)
Sounds good. Peace!