2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

Brock Ganeles (00:00.5)
Yeah

MARK HAYES (00:01.43)
Yes, indeed. Let's get to it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Minute Black and White, an Honest Conversation. Big weekend. Yes, indeed. No King's protest. And we are going to get a report from the front lines. Absolutely. Because Brock and Ellis, my brother, Muhammad X was on the front lines making sure that things happen. Brock, we are estimating anywhere from nine to 13 million people.

turned out yesterday for the no Kings protest, roughly 3300 rallies around the country. Wow. 13, let's say it is 13 million. We've got 330 million people that live in this country. It's 13 million big enough. Is that enough before we get to your report from the frontline?

Brock Ganeles (00:50.045)
It's not enough. guess those numbers are pretty encouraging. Some of the cities were just tremendous, right? Like the the pure test in Minneapolis was dramatic. mean, you know, you know, I'm conflicted on how I feel about the no Kings protests. I wasn't going to go out there, but then, you know, I read the Timothy Snyder piece and I was like, OK, I got to go out there. It helps other people when the numbers are bigger. I guess I guess we're more energized. There's better camaraderie.

MARK HAYES (00:56.141)
Bye.

Amazing.

Brock Ganeles (01:19.569)
There's a sense that there's just others out there like minded and it's not like this silent majority in America that just shows up in the disapproval ratings for Trump polls. So I see the benefits of, of attending, but it's still way, you know, I'll give some bullet points, to the local protest that I went to upstate New York Hudson river Valley, the one in Rhineback.

MARK HAYES (01:31.917)
Sure.

Brock Ganeles (01:49.593)
Arguably, I think there's too many of them make it too convenient for people right to be a bigger and more, you know bigger rally more robust rally even if you had to even if I had to drive 20 miles Right versus having it so spread out and having all these small really convenient for everyone rallies The messaging is better It's more political. So we had our local congressman is Pat Ryan and our state senator both speak

MARK HAYES (02:02.104)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (02:18.383)
And then we marched last time we just spoke and didn't even march. So marching is just much better because then we marched the middle of town and then you're showing a presence to even the people who didn't attend the rally. So it didn't make sense to me last time that we didn't do that. This time it felt better to do that. And so it's just, there's more active nature to that. It was slightly younger, slightly.

MARK HAYES (02:29.87)
Right.

Right.

Brock Ganeles (02:42.117)
Not quite as old, more young people are out there, not dramatically younger, but slightly directionally positive. The messaging is better, Mark, because the politicians now who've glommed onto this, right? They weren't at the first few of these. And now they're all showing up to make these political rallies are signaling a message that America is not looking to go back to what it was, that America has to move to something new coming out of this. And I consider that better messaging and the type of messaging that maybe

MARK HAYES (02:56.162)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (03:11.417)
eventually will develop a unified protest movement. It still wasn't unified. I think I saw two black people there. Now granted, it's a very white area and this time very few Latinos and no Latin American flags. think the last time I told you we saw Mexican flags, it was definitely very ice focused back in the fall. Zero yesterday. And that may be because they don't want to show themselves and

MARK HAYES (03:22.872)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (03:41.223)
they're not willing to be out in public in that way because they don't trust that ice might show up and haul them away. So I think it was less Latinos. I don't know if that's reflective of the whole country. That's reflective of the local protest that I went to. One anecdote is when we were marching from like this park to the center of town, the

MARK HAYES (03:48.695)
Which makes sense.

Brock Ganeles (04:05.625)
organizers were like on the sidewalk, on the sidewalk. And I guess they were doing that because they had a permit and they wanted it to be a very, you know, structured event and they didn't want there to be any problems. I refused to go on the sidewalk. I'm like, why are we jamming on the sidewalk? You know, get out of the street, get out of the streets. Like, why aren't we walking in the street? Are we so polite and so worried that we can't even disrupt the

MARK HAYES (04:12.94)
to prove it.

Thanks for watching!

Brock Ganeles (04:30.715)
the auto traffic in little Rhinebeck on a Saturday morning. it's cause somebody might be five minutes late to getting their latte. Like we're so worried about, we're so polite and non confrontational that like they're pushing everyone to the sidewalk. And I'm like, it's just reflective of the mentality that it's not a disruption mentality, right? It's like it just show a presence mentality, show numbers.

MARK HAYES (04:33.806)
you

MARK HAYES (04:45.838)
Thank you.

MARK HAYES (04:52.044)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (04:58.735)
make a statement mentality, but let's do it in a way that doesn't really upset anybody. What was I worried that some MAGA asshole was going to have to sit there while we marched for a couple of minutes? Like that's the worst thing that could happen. I get it. They don't want anyone run over. They didn't want any violence, but it's like, come on, we're out there protesting. Like it's not a fucking parade on the sidewalk.

We're out there to protest what's going on in America. It's OK if it is a little steps on the toes of society. You want those people sitting in the car thinking about why these other people are out there marching. Let them internalize and watch it for a moment. Not it's not incumbent on us, the protesters who are fighting authoritarianism to stay out of their way and do it in a nice, cordial way. So that aggravated the shit out of me.

and gets me to my question back to you Mark is what was accomplished yesterday?

MARK HAYES (06:02.006)
Well, nothing, because Donald Trump is still going about his dumb shit and his stupidity. And his stupidity reigns, and he's still in power. And the goal of all these protests and all these actions should be to get rid of him. And I'm surprised that our politicians are not calling for articles of impeachment. We talked about that last week. We are a broken record here.

calling for his removal. Nobody seems to think he's doing that much damage, but he is, but he is. You know, when we look at what's actually going on, do prices come down because of yesterday's, you know, protests and activities? No, right. Is there any relief at the airports? No matter of fact, people are now taking the trains, which has got to be even more inconvenient and more difficult.

you know what, like nothing's changed. The price of record high price of eggs still hasn't gone down. And that's why we elected this fucker. Right? That's what they say anyway. But you know, nothing has changed and I feel you on that. it's nice to know that people are against what he's doing.

But look, we only had 10 % of the electorate out there if you think about how many people actually vote and actually cast a ballot. And we only had, what, 50 % turnout at the presidential election? And we had, what, 10, 13 million yesterday? It's another 10%.

So we had 50 % cast ballots. We had 10 % show out in opposition. Where's the American electorate? Where are all the American people? Where's the 50 million that voted for this fucking guy to lower prices? How come they're not protesting? Are they eating their racism? Are they able to cook it up and saute it, smack it up, flip it, rub it down?

Brock Ganeles (08:29.021)
If 64 % of Americans being polled are disapproved of Trump, why is it that only 10 million people are out protesting? And what you didn't even touch on is hasn't changed is nothing's changed in the war in Iran. mean, now we're talking about ground troops being sent in, potentially the Houthis have joined the fight. Our strategic goal is to open the Strait of Hormuz, which, oh, by the way, was opened six weeks ago before.

MARK HAYES (08:37.858)
Like that.

MARK HAYES (08:43.882)
No!

MARK HAYES (08:51.16)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (08:58.973)
We started this war of choice and we are now proposing to Iran a nuclear agreement that is pretty much the same as the one that Obama had gotten them to sign 10-12 years ago. So those are the strategic goals is to go back to something that Trump ripped out because he hates Obama and rescinded on the nuclear agreement.

and we just want to get the boats, the oil tankers flowing through there again so the gas can come back down from $4 a gallon to $3 a gallon which was already too high. So no strategic end game. None of that has changed this morning.

MARK HAYES (09:39.331)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (09:46.969)
I'm frustrated with the no Kings movement because I commend them for the fantastic organizational capability of putting together these thousands of protests. So whoever's in charge of it has just done a phenomenal job. They're like real grassroots organizers and now they've gotten the politicians involved. They've gotten high profile entertainment figures evolve. Springsteen, Joan Baez.

you know, De Niro is out there, right? All kinds of, know, well-known people out there that helped to amplify the message. But I don't know why there's such pride in like the fact that there's no violence and no incidents that such pride in the civility of the movement when

MARK HAYES (10:41.804)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (10:44.173)
all roads are going to lead to what you've been calling for since we've been talking for 15 months is we're going instead of 2200 different small or in some time, in some cases, big protests, there has to be one massive protest in DC. It can't be on a Saturday morning where it's just tucked in between people's yoga class and their, you know, gardening. It's gotta be like,

MARK HAYES (11:08.611)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (11:10.311)
during the week where it absolutely disrupts the operations of the nation. It has to be in a place that actually stirs and shakes Donald Trump and slaps a little bit of a fear into him. And it's going to have to trigger a response, whether that be local police, national guard or the military. We're going to have to force Trump to call in his fucking dogs to get us the fuck out of there.

MARK HAYES (11:38.55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (11:40.219)
and we're going to have to hope that they refuse or there's going to be some, there's going to have to be some skirmishes. This, we ain't going to fight authoritarianism politely.

MARK HAYES (11:51.158)
No, and I think...

Ever since the civil rights movement, we've tried to get away from that because it was so ugly. So we've tried to get away from those brutal responses to protest. But we're right back there now. And we already know we can't fight authoritarianism with politeness because we've already seen Alex Pratty and Renee Good moan down

and broad daylight. So there is no fighting authoritarianism the nice way. The only way to do it is to get in there and gum up the works. And do we have to bring gallows for JD Vance to the Capitol? Is that the only way to get a response from these people? Is that the only thing they understand? Do we need to create gangs?

that replicate the three percenters and oath keepers on the good guy side so that we can have good people on both sides. I mean, look, we've got we've got to root this bastard out. And, know, he. Like we've seen we see the damage he's done already. How the hell. Are we supposed to go three and. You know, three quarter more years.

with this bullshit. What's the country gonna be like? What will be the status of our nation in 2028? We can't make it to 2028 with this goon in charge, especially if he lives. Gosh almighty. I I shudder to think where we'll be in 2028.

Brock Ganeles (13:50.917)
Mark, like 500,000 people were out in New York yesterday. I mean, can five percent of that number, 10 percent of that number go down to D.C. and then 10 percent of the people that protested in Atlanta make their way up and 10 percent of the people that protested in Virginia make their way over and Wilmington, Delaware and Philadelphia. And we can't get the numbers to a million plus down into D.C. Now, I mean, that would just

That would shake the fabric of the country. That would put all the eyes on what's going on in DC.

MARK HAYES (14:26.572)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (14:28.181)
And I think it would just success would breed success in order to attract more and more people to go there to be more and more disruptive. And then it would force a reaction because once again, Trump didn't even react to yesterday. He was playing golf again, right? He give a shit. He was talking about himself and how all the people at Mar-a-Lago are losers and he doesn't want to be surrounded by successful people. Right. He was babbling all day long about random shit and playing golf. He wasn't in any way.

MARK HAYES (14:41.516)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (14:57.957)
No fear was struck into him by 9-10 million people marching around the country. He's like, okay, you spent your Saturday morning marching and I spent mine playing golf and here we are on Sunday and nothing's fucking changed.

MARK HAYES (15:00.716)
at all.

MARK HAYES (15:11.822)
Right. Right. I'm still the king. You know, if the objective was to get rid of the kings, we still have one. We still have this clown in power, making our lives miserable, making our lives more difficult, making them more stressful. And yet we're kind of sort of celebrating. Kind of felt a little celebratory, you know.

Brock Ganeles (15:40.669)
Yeah, success. There's this mythical belief that if you get 3.5 % of the populace out there protesting, because someone wrote a thesis paper on it, that means the autocracy is going to get tumbled within like three, four years, or some other statistic like that. Whatever, Trump's going to be dead three, four years. But we don't have the luxury of that time. I just don't understand the lack of sense of urgency. I still don't understand.

why we haven't had like a real leader or leadership emerge that's like, you know, voicing a counter, you know, like a counter vision of America to Trump, a non-politician. I don't see why there isn't anyone who can give some good fucking speeches and get a broader crowd rallied into concentrated areas. I mean, it wasn't through that million mayor.

MARK HAYES (16:19.522)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (16:34.609)
man, March, like 10, 20 years ago, there was the, the protest, the parkland guy kids did on no guns in DC. There's a women's March there. Like there's been recently huge marches in DC. Why are we avoiding DC? They actually had a good protest yesterday. They went to like where Stephen Miller is staying and where Christie, where like a Hegseth is staying on some military base. They made some noise, but

MARK HAYES (16:50.84)
Right?

Brock Ganeles (17:02.727)
They were left alone so they didn't have the huge numbers to where, you know, they were necessarily able to be even more disruptive. I don't get all those things are missing. The messaging is getting a little bit better, but it's certainly not good enough to get black people out there. still don't think that black America was a big part of the protests yesterday. Like I said, think that Latino America was a lesser portion.

MARK HAYES (17:11.907)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (17:31.461)
Yesterday maybe if you know Ryan Beck was reflective of anything Maybe that's a little bit out of fear of being out there Publicly with all the filming that's going on and the surveillance state we're in where they just get picked off and thrown in these Concentration camps where more and more of them are dying as we see due to like basically medical neglect so we're still not where we need to be the anger level is not high enough and

MARK HAYES (17:40.194)
Right?

MARK HAYES (17:45.219)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (17:58.653)
Motherfucker, if I have to hear about waiting for the midterms one more time... Are you fucking kidding me? The economy's gonna be in the fucking tank by the time we get to the midterms. Yep, the country's gonna be starving.

MARK HAYES (18:02.83)
I know. It's frustrating to hear that. It's frustrating to think. In nine months?

Yeah, makes no sense. In the meantime, though, let's get over here and talk a little bit about what's going on in Iran because our ally Russia apparently is taking surveillance images of our properties in Saudi Arabia, of our military bases in Saudi Arabia and sharing them.

with our enemies? What would, I mean, that's Mr. Zelensky telling us this. So what the fuck is going on, brah? Like how are we now friends with Vladimir Putin? Is it the peepee tapes? Is it the X-Men files?

Brock Ganeles (18:56.593)
How has Iran been so sickly, even though we say we've wiped everything out, their Navy, their Army, their this, their that, how are they still able to hit key strategic military assets throughout the Middle East with such what appears to be pretty good precision? How are they getting that intelligence? How is Iran having all that intelligence? Would it surprise us? mean, Iran is feeding Russia drones.

MARK HAYES (19:07.073)
still and is.

MARK HAYES (19:12.227)
Bye.

MARK HAYES (19:20.59)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (19:25.903)
so Russia has no fucking money so therefore maybe they are paying Iran back and sharing intelligence. And the only person in the country that really believes Russia is our ally is Trump. Because as long as they protect him, they his ally and since he thinks his interests are American national interests, ergo.

MARK HAYES (19:52.365)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (19:52.527)
Russia is our ally even though they are helping our military assets to get bombed. But Trump will just ignore it and pretend like it didn't happen and not address it because it's yet another topic that he doesn't want to get into. But the rest of America, know Ukraine is our ally and not Russia. 90 % of us probably feel that way. That's like at least half of MAGA even agrees on that.

MARK HAYES (19:59.129)
Thanks.

MARK HAYES (20:08.535)
Right.

MARK HAYES (20:12.877)
Right.

MARK HAYES (20:20.385)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (20:21.405)
Since we do have a king, American foreign policy is dictated by one person.

MARK HAYES (20:29.325)
Right.

Which is cute.

Brock Ganeles (20:32.539)
And now one person wants to stay in favor with Vladimir Putin.

MARK HAYES (20:37.324)
Right. In the meantime, Zelensky says that he believes that Russia is in this thing to help the Iranians, which is amazing. But like, you know, like Vladimir said years ago, Putin that is, you know, he'll be able to destroy America from within without ever having to fire a single bullet. Has never fired a bullet at us. And he look, look at what a wonderful job Vladimir Putin is doing.

sowing division and hate in America and we're pulling ourselves apart from the inside. I mean, it's like an infectious tick that Donald Trump has unleashed that continues to grow. And the more and more growth we get, the more and more frustration we get, and it's almost like the more and more people tune out. Like it ain't trying to pretend like it's not happening.

And it is happening and it's happening in the worst way. It's fucking terrible. You know, and here we are asking Ukraine for help. And when they asked us for help, we couldn't we we couldn't offer them an MRE, much less some weaponry. It's fucking terrible. So 3500 more troops allegedly heading to the Gulf. How is that a good thing?

Brock Ganeles (22:08.197)
Iran says bring them on. bring ground troops who are going to kill them.

MARK HAYES (22:11.552)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Brock Ganeles (22:13.501)
I'm sure they'll take casualty know a lot of casualties as well, but You know they're defending their homeland at this point, so They're gonna Inflict as much damage as they can along the way knowing that the more people the more troops they kill the harder it is for the u.s. stay in this war so once again our troops are being treated like shit as we talk about all the time

MARK HAYES (22:32.376)
Thanks

Brock Ganeles (22:41.661)
being sent into a useless war and many of them are going to be in position to die or get injured for no viable reason. To dial back the clock on two things that were there six weeks ago and ten years ago. Just to get back to where we used to be. That's Trump's call. I want to get back to where we used to be and just call it

MARK HAYES (22:56.088)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (23:11.183)
my own and take victory for bringing peace to the region.

MARK HAYES (23:12.386)
Right.

MARK HAYES (23:16.818)
situation that was already. Yeah. And you know, the thing about it, Brock, too, that the Iran's parliament speaker says that the enemy openly sends messages of negotiation and dialogue, but secretly is planning a ground attack. We can't even keep a secret in this country because our leaders at the top are so inept. I mean, we've got literally the clown car.

driving the military machine right now.

Brock Ganeles (23:48.357)
And there's probably leakers who don't want it to happen. So they're trying to float it out there maybe in hopes of sentiment being negative and somehow Trump, you know, pulling a taco and go in the other direction. I mean, that's why there's leaks on everything now. I mean, this is the leakiest, you know, administration we've ever seen.

MARK HAYES (23:51.158)
Right. Right.

MARK HAYES (24:09.134)
Yeah, and again, our soldiers are going to be going in harm's way and we're going to be lied to about what's happening to them. How about that shit? We're not even going like, we've always been wary of, you know, accounts in war going back to Vietnam and, you know, since modern media has been covering these conflicts. But now, I mean, Trump just openly lies.

about what's going on with our soldiers and our men and women in uniform. So, you know, fuck this guy, man. I mean, it's time.

Brock Ganeles (24:41.649)
We lied about the planes in Saudi Arabia. said they were damaged. And you see the videos like those things were decimated, not damaged. Those aren't being rebuilt. Those airplanes are destroyed. They're destroyed. You're not rebuilding that those that aircraft, but like they just going to hit us with different words. But Mark, I don't know. I feel like I'm reflective of

MARK HAYES (24:50.51)
Right. There is nothing to rebuild.

Brock Ganeles (25:07.065)
a of people in the resistance and on the left. Like my energy was much lower. I dragged my ass out there yesterday. I woke up today with less energy. You know, I felt like I was trying to be convinced that we're winning and there'd be bullet points on all the places where, you know, the resistance has pushed back on the Trump administration and highlighting like certain victories like a

MARK HAYES (25:10.53)
Okay.

MARK HAYES (25:17.187)
you

Brock Ganeles (25:31.833)
ice detention facility hasn't opened and a VA hospital didn't get closed. was targeted to get closed. But I'm like, these aren't big fucking victories. This is once again, getting back to where we were, you know, saving a VA hospital is like saving the straight of Hormuz reopening it, right? The hospital was there before it's still there now. Great. That's not to me a great victory. That's not moving forward. So I'm just, I'm, I'm

MARK HAYES (25:41.582)
Alright.

Right.

MARK HAYES (25:56.056)
Bye.

Brock Ganeles (25:59.951)
I'm a little demoralized because I'm not seeing the fire. I'm not seeing, I'm not hearing from fire brands. Everyone has, everyone feels like they have to trip over themselves to be the voice of reason. So I'm not hearing any fire brand talk and there's just nothing out there that's getting me energized defending and staving off the worst of the atrocities doesn't feel like victory to me.

Victory is steps towards Trump's removal. That's the only end game that matters to me because if that end game happens, then all the other little things behind it can get reversed, changed and fixed. So saving pushing out off a detention center is small potatoes compared to the removal of a

fucking psychopathic dementia ridden narcissistic moron as the leader of the country. And that's the only end game that matters to

MARK HAYES (27:01.89)
Right.

All right. All right. Speaking of games, before we get out of here, we got the sweet 16 coming up. We've got two of the final four that Michigan Tennessee game should be winding down, which should give us three of the four heading into the final four. Brock, what say you about the college coaching situation here? We notice pretty much a monolith when it comes to the sweet 16.

in terms of what the coaches look like.

Brock Ganeles (27:37.477)
Now especially on the men's men's basketball, men's college basketball is now basically mirroring men's college football. We're almost, almost all the coaches are white.

MARK HAYES (27:49.514)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (27:51.319)
Since college sports has acknowledged recently that it's a business paying the players, the NILs and all that. It's now reflective of corporate America and the percentage of CEOs that you'd find of people of color in the fortune 500. And I just feel like it's college administrations, board of governors and the funders.

MARK HAYES (28:00.494)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (28:19.707)
behind the schools slash sports teams want a white person running their business. So to me, college sports, particularly on the men's side, absolutely reflective of corporate America. The woman's side has more black coaches and my take would be probably cause the schools don't care as much about them. They're right. They're not putting as much money into it.

MARK HAYES (28:23.059)
Mm-hmm.

MARK HAYES (28:28.43)
Mm.

MARK HAYES (28:43.894)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Brock Ganeles (28:47.421)
Because in a sport where so many of the players are African American, why would it not translate to more of the coaches being African American? How could it be zero? Like all these players play, none of them learn the game enough to then make their way on to become coaches? I mean, it's counterintuitive. Like it makes no fucking sense except for it's another place where institutional racism has worked its way even

MARK HAYES (28:53.688)
Right.

MARK HAYES (28:58.222)
Love it.

MARK HAYES (29:08.77)
Right. At all.

Brock Ganeles (29:17.233)
further into the sport. we've kind of reversed in the progress that probably had seen over the last decade or so it's going backwards. Anti-DEI. It's, it's reflective of everything that else that's going on in the country.

MARK HAYES (29:33.398)
And you know, you'd like to think education would be one of those places where we could be a little bit colorblind, because facts are facts, right? But even in academia, I well, I guess I'm a little crazy for being optimistic there. There once was a time where we had segregated schools. So like 2 plus 2 is not 4 in black and white schools. mean,

I don't know why it's okay for the black athlete to offer so much and get so little in return comparatively speaking. I mean, you think about what coaches are making now, you know, the salaries, the bonuses, Brock, if we're giving kids a couple million dollars a year, what do you think we're giving coaches?

Somebody's got to corral all this talent, put it together, make it work. Give us a national championship.

Brock Ganeles (30:40.125)
Well, coaches are management, right? The players come and go. It's great. They're getting paid now. So economically, you know, they're, you know, they're getting, they're not free labor anymore, which they were for a hundred years. So that's a step in the right direction. But yeah, each of these teams has five, six, seven, eight coaches. And there's always a few people of color on the staff to help with the recruiting probably, but like never at the top, not at the senior management level.

MARK HAYES (30:42.562)
Right?

MARK HAYES (30:53.943)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (31:08.795)
not the person who's allowed to be the decision maker. And it's just reflective of, you know, the lack of opportunity, fair opportunity in our society. If I was black like you, I would be really, really frustrated watching that dynamic unfold in front of me. I'd be frustrated by it.

MARK HAYES (31:23.689)
yep.

MARK HAYES (31:32.45)
Right. Yeah. and I am. Trust me. You know, I even know, you know, I host another podcast with a gentleman who's a former NFL player. His son is a former NFL, CFL, Power Five linebacker, All-American, can't get a coaching gig. You know, meanwhile, you got two Kubiaks.

Shanahan's ad nauseam, you know, mean, why is, you know, the nepotism cool for one element of society, but not for another?

Brock Ganeles (32:13.671)
Look at Auburn, right? Bruce Paul leaves, hands the keys to his son. Who the fuck's his son? Right? Fuck was that guy? Right? Who's now coaching one of the top, arguably had been top 10 basketball programs in the country. He's handed the keys. I've never heard of him as a player. This is, you know, who the fuck knows, right? And they had a shitty season, you know, maybe that's a coincidence. Maybe the son's just not that good a coach.

MARK HAYES (32:17.806)
Right, right. Basketball programs.

MARK HAYES (32:28.3)
Right.

MARK HAYES (32:33.078)
Right.

MARK HAYES (32:40.664)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (32:42.521)
or maybe he's not, he's never been a head coach because he's always had the nepotism and been his father's sidekick. So he's never had to be the head guy and make those decisions in the moment, in the speed of the game or dealing with the players and all that in a different way. And so he didn't have to go back and coach division three and work his way up through junior college and then to division two and then to get that small school job and win there to finally get

MARK HAYES (32:43.086)
Could be it.

MARK HAYES (32:58.647)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (33:11.141)
a seat like you get at Auburn, one of the top 20 jobs in the country was handed to the son of the coach. And you know, that shit goes on and goes on all the time. I think it's going to be really interesting to see because really big jobs have opened up, of course, because North Carolina fired their black coach, Hubert Davis, who's North Carolina going to hire? Who's North Carolina State going to hire?

MARK HAYES (33:18.626)
Right.

MARK HAYES (33:33.59)
Also a lamb.

Brock Ganeles (33:39.495)
Who would Kansas hire if Bill Self steps aside? Which for health reasons I would argue probably should plus programs in decline. Who's gonna get these big, big jobs? And you know, we probably know the answer.

MARK HAYES (33:43.342)
Thank

MARK HAYES (33:54.274)
Yeah, yes we do. All right, buddy. Let's wrap it up and do it again on a Monday.

Brock Ganeles (33:59.741)
Alright Mark, always a pleasure. Talk to you tomorrow.

MARK HAYES (34:01.376)
Yes sir. Sounds good. Peace.