2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

MARK HAYES (00:01.642)
Alright ladies and gentlemen, welcome back for another exciting edition of two men in black and white and honest conversation. Alright, we are 48 hours away from the no Kings Day Parade. 8,000,000 people, 3300 plus protests around the country, including the one that yours truly Brock and Ellis attended. Brock, did you wear your signature scarf to the protest? I was hoping that you.

Brock Ganeles (00:25.679)
I should have. It was 32 degrees out the morning of the protest. Yeah. I was was underdressed because you because there was like an hour of speeches and I was just standing around freezing my ass off. So no, I did not have the signature scarf that the Mago world hates so much. Aka Ice Mask. No, should have had it with me.

MARK HAYES (00:28.844)
No way. No way!

MARK HAYES (00:48.206)
Yeah, I gotta get me one of those scarves if they hate it. All right, US stocks swinging today based on, you know, a reaction to Trump, but Trump's got no reaction to no Kings, millions, literally millions of people in the streets, you know, and the goal is to get people involved in the political process according to the national communications director from no Kings.

Are we doing that, number one? And how do we get a reaction from Trump?

How do we push them off, really? that, that's all?

Brock Ganeles (01:27.3)
Trump only responds to strength and power. He's only entirely focused on power dynamics. He's a predator. He's a sexual predator. He's always looking at power dynamics. And bunch of people just marching in streets that aren't even near to him or doesn't in any way affect his day.

is irrelevant to him. So that's like the fourth of these rallies in a row that he has totally ignored and or mocked. So the only way to get his attention is to have a something of a stampede in his neighborhood so that he feels the strength and feels the opposition and hopefully fears it and

MARK HAYES (02:20.194)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (02:21.21)
Maybe he lashes out and calls martial law. He might. It's likely. He loves his military now. We'll get to that in a second now that he knows he can make money off of it. But we can't be afraid of the Mad King's irrational actions because if you're so afraid of them that you don't want to kick his hornet's nest, then we're just going to go on as is. So we're going to have to have the courage to

MARK HAYES (02:32.782)
You

Brock Ganeles (02:50.574)
aggressively confront Trump and possibly risk some violence coming from the state.

MARK HAYES (03:01.132)
Yeah, we've already kicked the proverbial hornet's nest. I mean, that's what Iran is. And now we're talking about putting, you know, boots on the ground to go in and steal uranium. You know, I heard that today and I thought to myself, who was the idiot that thought that that was, that thought that it was possible. But then again, I thought who was the idiot that said it out loud and they're one in the same.

It's Trump. Trump thinks that that can be accomplished.

Brock Ganeles (03:37.053)
Yeah, and it made its way to the press because I'm sure someone sitting in that meeting who thought it was the most absurd idea they'd ever heard and knew it was going to get a whole bunch of American troops killed immediately ran to the Wall Street Journal so that that story could get out. So there could be an outcry in the hopes of Trump seeing a negative reaction. So he backs away from his lunatic ideas. And that seems to be the way most of the administration operates.

MARK HAYES (03:42.798)
Thank you.

MARK HAYES (03:47.822)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (04:04.986)
is why we're seeing all these leaks and stories coming out. Because I think that the people around Trump view that as the way to influence his thinking and decision making is to do it through the press. So me, I envision everyone sitting in the meeting, writing down the crazy shit that he thinks is realistic and then picking up their phone as soon as they get out of the room and telling their favorite reporter, you know, got to, got to, you know, print this one right away.

is because it's the only way that they can hope that Trump doesn't fall through on these harebrained ideas and Hegseth seems to be on board with basically anything that fucking moron so he ain't the voice of reason he's got he's in a religious war

MARK HAYES (04:45.014)
Yeah, he's, he's. Yeah. Exactly. But you know where the real religious zealots are? In Iran. Right? Those 200,000 fuckers that are running that IRG. Those people are in a holy war. I don't know if we realize that yet or not. But they're fighting the great Satan. The Satan of all Satans. Which is how they view the US.

and they are in a holy war, they are in it to win it, they will die. They will die fighting the US and Satan.

Brock Ganeles (05:24.2)
we not know it? I like we remember 9-11 those fuckers and those are all suicide missions right? mean there were no survivors, those terrorists they knew what they were getting themselves into right? And you know 19 of them died you know they took down 2200 or so of Americans but they were on suicide missions and that's the mentality of the jihadist and Iran's full of them so

MARK HAYES (05:32.558)
Right? Right?

MARK HAYES (05:37.42)
Yep. Yep.

MARK HAYES (05:51.192)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (05:53.255)
We put boots on the ground. the Iranian forces aren't going to be worried about their own casualties. They're just going to take out as many Americans as they can. But like we didn't know it was hard enough to find bin Laden, which we never did in the Afghani mountains. And we didn't have enough soldiers dying. We literally think we're going to be able to land what some boats and then we're going to traipse across Iran, sneak into an underground.

MARK HAYES (06:02.837)
No?

Brock Ganeles (06:22.972)
bunker underneath the mountains, scoop up the uranium in backpacks and sprint back

to border? Come on, what the fuck is this? What movie? What movie Trump see that shit in? He thinks he's gonna get Stallone and Schwarzenegger and those guys to do it?

MARK HAYES (06:31.982)
Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

MARK HAYES (06:38.926)
Yeah

Right, right. Check this out though. Gulf allies are trying to make the case to Trump to keep fighting until Iran is decisively defeated. nobody, but they're like, yeah, you keep doing it. We're going to sit here and watch. We'll, we'll check you out, you know, when it's all over, right? Send your men and in here and get all hacked up.

Brock Ganeles (07:03.238)
or there or

or they're cutting checks. Now they're worried about how vulnerable they are to Iran because they see that Iran can hit them. Dubai's fucked. They're scared of shitless now because they want to be some resort country and if they're within drone strike capability of Iran, who's going to go there and sit on the beaches of Dubai wondering whether Iran's sending a drone their way? So now they've got the Israel mentality which is Iran has to be in

MARK HAYES (07:16.749)
yeah.

MARK HAYES (07:30.527)
Exactly.

Brock Ganeles (07:35.119)
I

MARK HAYES (07:37.132)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (07:46.536)
wow, a righty bit.

MARK HAYES (07:53.366)
Whatever. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (08:03.91)
The theory is behind the jihadist mentality.

MARK HAYES (08:04.226)
Yeah?

MARK HAYES (08:08.162)
Yeah. And here's the thing too, Brock, like you said, Dubai is screwed, Iran has these long range missile capabilities now that we've just now found out about, and they can reach Europe with these missiles, right? We're talking about bringing in ships into the strait, going up on these islands.

You know, we don't know where these caves are, right? That they're gonna be pulling howitzers out of and shooting at our men and women on these ships. They're gonna have speed boats with, you know, all kinds of explosives for ramming missions, right? I mean, American ships in the Gulf, or the Strait of Hormuz, wherever they end up, is not what America wants to see right now.

I mean, no Americans want to say we don't have any. We don't have any damn reason for being in this war. Why are we watching our munitions and men and women getting hacked up? Why? Why are we there? No one and no one's talking about you see the media not asking the question conveniently, right? They stopped at they were told stop asking the question. Nobody's asking anymore. Why are we there?

Nobody's talking about the Epstein files, right? Nobody's talking about the stuff that actually matters to the American people, right? Meanwhile, as you mentioned, Trump's enriching himself, Eric, what's the other one's name, John Jr. And then you got the, the Barrett, the, the, the red Baron pizza kid, the six foot nine ogre on athletic dude.

Brock Ganeles (09:54.236)
Don Jr.

Brock Ganeles (10:03.144)
But we know Javonka is out there getting his Greece palmed everywhere he goes. He's running around. He's getting bribed by all these Gulf countries who want us to stay in the war. he'll come back and Jared will give Trump the message. We got to stay fighting because look at how much money we're making. We're getting paid. You know, we're like mercenaries. We're like paid mercenaries for Israel in these Gulf states. We're a paid for hire army right now. But Trump has also discovered

MARK HAYES (10:08.972)
everywhere.

MARK HAYES (10:27.384)
Yep. Saudi Arabia, right.

Brock Ganeles (10:33.18)
back on the home front how easy and phenomenally self enriching it is to tap into the Department of Defense budget. Because now he's got Don Jr. or starting up drone companies. So he got into the munitions game and that's a flow to the tunes of hundreds of billions of dollars a year. know our defense budgets only go up, never get cut.

So he's like, he's sitting at the end of that rainbow. So I don't see us ever being a country at peace with Trump as president ever again, now that he's figured out that this is just easy money for him.

MARK HAYES (11:16.546)
No doubt, no doubt. Yeah, and for the family, you know, because he's never been any good at making money. His kids are not talented either. So yeah, so, you know, the grift is what they're into. And so the grifting will continue. We'll keep it up at the behest of Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kuwait, all the Gulf States.

Brock Ganeles (11:44.232)
Qatar, Dubai, I mean the Saudis have the deepest pockets, of course Israel right behind them.

MARK HAYES (11:47.702)
Yep, our rain.

MARK HAYES (11:52.035)
Yep. And just imagine the billions they're going to funnel into Trump's pocket. Just imagine.

Brock Ganeles (11:57.085)
Think of it. Look at how wide and huge scale the corruption is that we're describing right here. Right. This is the utilization of the United States military for the self enrichment of the president and his family. Like military and we supposedly love the military.

MARK HAYES (12:15.2)
A lone stupid fucker. Right.

Brock Ganeles (12:19.514)
the actual soldiers themselves, absolute, if they're even pawns, that's probably an upgrade for them. Like they're well billing being no one in the administration cares about the wellbeing of the troops because Trump's getting enriched. Therefore Trump will keep pushing all these MAGA policies that lets all these white supremacists behind them have the country that they want to have. So they're just looking the other direction, just like they

MARK HAYES (12:26.435)
Bye.

Brock Ganeles (12:46.792)
Look the other direction on the Epstein file. So now we've gone from the biggest sexual assault, sexual predator, sex trafficking scheme in world history to the biggest military corruption scheme in world history at the same time with the same person.

MARK HAYES (13:04.354)
Yeah, yeah. At the same time. Right. And he's getting away with both of them in broad daylight. Broad daylight. We've already seen enough from the Epstein files to cuff him. Right? We already know about the little girl that filed the suit, who dropped it because he threatened to kill her and her family. We already know about all that. Yeah. 13 years old.

Brock Ganeles (13:14.578)
Broad Daily.

Brock Ganeles (13:29.618)
Katie Johnson, Katie Johnson, 13 years old.

MARK HAYES (13:33.711)
We already know about that. So we've got enough. There's no statute of limitations on that. So we've got enough to go after this guy, to go after all the predators in the files because we know what they did. What is poor, rural, white America saying today? Well, damn, we love Donald Trump. now Donald Trump is now the man that's holding me down.

Donald Trump doesn't give a shit that you got $4 gas, that beef prices are at record high, right? That your egg prices not only did they not go down, they went up. And now he's making your life more difficult because the economy's in the shitter and it's gonna get worse. We haven't even seen.

Brock Ganeles (14:24.584)
and you can't afford your insulin or your blood pressure pills or those other key medicines that are keeping you alive or you're making a decision between one or the other. lower middle class, lower middle class, poor America is absolutely in dire straits right now. You see it all over social media, like the cries for help, the I didn't vote for this type of

MARK HAYES (14:52.684)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (14:53.244)
you know commentary and or the just the shock that they're being impacted but I don't think that was any of the eight million nine million people that were out there on no Kings Day I don't think a single one of them was one of these mega lovers that's getting screwed I don't think they flipped so far as to actually actively

MARK HAYES (15:10.786)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (15:18.44)
denying their MAGA loyalty, think they're still just in the complain about it phase.

MARK HAYES (15:21.944)
Right.

MARK HAYES (15:25.784)
Yeah, because it's the racism, stupid, right? Because we're still racist. We just hate what Donald Trump is doing to us. He wasn't supposed to do it to us. He's supposed to do it to them. Where are the ones? This brown, not me, right? And then you got Charles Barkley coming out yesterday. How interesting was that? Charles Barkley taking an opportunity in the middle of the biggest.

you know, one of the biggest sporting events of the year, March Madness, to talk about how poorly America's immigrants are being treated and that they should be admired and celebrated. They had a story on feature. They were featuring one of the Yukon kids. How about that Yukon Duke game? Wow. We can talk about that in a minute, but jeez.

Brock Ganeles (16:10.212)
Yeah, we'll to that. We know what's interesting about Barkley said, he did say that, you know, we should respect immigrants because they built America. You know, it's funny because you were saying just three days ago, you're like, Hey, we should respect black people and stop weight washing black history because black people built America. And then it was funny Charles Barkley, a black man going like, you know what? We should respect immigrants. Immigrants built America and both statements are true.

MARK HAYES (16:20.117)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (16:28.448)
We built this shit.

MARK HAYES (16:37.71)
But slaves were not immigrants.

Brock Ganeles (16:41.84)
Yeah, I know. Well, unforced, unforced immigration, would be the or forced immigration? Is that the way to whitewash? Is that the way to whitewash that term? Kidnapped immigration?

MARK HAYES (16:48.642)
Yes, indeed.

Exactly. Yeah, that's how you, you know, switch it from a felony, right? From millions of felonious counts and the kidnapping of a people.

Brock Ganeles (17:06.696)
Yeah, and slaves weren't paid for the work. The immigrants who built America at least got a paycheck.

MARK HAYES (17:10.286)
still haven't been.

and still haven't been. We won't get reparations, right? I told you, I asked George W. about it on the 2000 campaign trail. He had no idea where the money could possibly come from. But we printed money during COVID for PPP.

Brock Ganeles (17:27.622)
Me.

Do think Barclay had planned to say that in advance or do think that hit him in the moment watching the piece on the Connecticut player? He walked into it very gingerly.

MARK HAYES (17:46.615)
He was very careful about his words. I think he knew what was coming. I think he wanted to say something about the immigrant. But you know, with Charles, never know. Anything could pop out of his mouth. And that's why they love him, right? Because he'll say anything. But he was very careful about how he worded what he said. And I did not check social media yesterday when he said that immigrants built this country.

You know, yeah, once we got into the 1900s, there were a lot of immigrants, you know, putting in good, hard work, you know, to make this country what it is. But the foundation, we built this shit for free. Yeah, we were already on a roll by then. But yeah, but you know, Barkley, I just feel like, you know, it's about time somebody with a big platform

Brock Ganeles (18:31.452)
Yeah, foundation was built. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (18:45.428)
said something, right? We've got all these people, know, Nick Cannon out here running around talking about how the Democrats are a part of the KKK. Read a book, would you please? Read a book, you moron. He has no idea what he's saying. Then we saw today another, one of the members of TLC, the greatest R &B women's group ever, liking Donald Trump.

and yeah, Philly from TLC. It's like, wow. I mean, unaware are you that, I mean, are you that rich? Because you only made 50 grand when you sold 10 million albums. So you can't be that rich. I mean, maybe you've got some new found wealth, but I just don't understand.

Brock Ganeles (19:15.432)
Yeah, it's chilly, right? Chilly?

MARK HAYES (19:42.891)
how what's what is impacting the rest of the brown people is not impact what is nick cannon seeing that makes him scream out that the only plausible choice on the ticket is d is with the letter d right there is no other choice at this point there aren't good people on both sides anymore what is chili talking about

She's excited that Donald Trump won Georgia? Are you kidding me? Well, maybe you're not a childbearing age anymore. Maybe it doesn't matter to you. Maybe there are no young ladies in your family, right, that need choice. Maybe you don't know any men with young wives who might need a life-saving procedure. Or maybe you missed a news article about how the woman in Georgia was charged with murder.

for aborting her fetus. That just happened, what, a week or two ago? I mean, come on, I mean, these people are just brain, I guess becoming a celebrity makes you somewhat brain dead. But you know, hey, you can get canceled out here. People are finding out the hard way. Cancellation notices are going out. You know, this is no time to fool around. This is nothing to fuck with. You wanna be a Trump fan?

Nobody will buy your music. don't know. I don't watch Nick Cannon shows anyway. But you know, that's the fastest way to get one taken home. That's right. His stuff probably airs on Paramount. Right?

Brock Ganeles (21:25.16)
He's on Fox. He's on Big, he's a, oh, well, a mass singer, I think he's the host of Mass Singers, which is a Fox show. So he can get away with saying, I don't know.

MARK HAYES (21:29.828)
yeah, Mass Singer, yeah, he's got the Fox thing. But his other show, the Wilding Out Show, which is huge, I think is on a Paramount network. But it doesn't, CBS, Paramount, same thing, MTV.

Brock Ganeles (21:45.737)
But I don't even understand exactly what he meant by the KKK. It's almost like, please, unpeel the onion. Let's go a layer deeper here. Explain this to me. I just don't think there's anything behind it.

MARK HAYES (21:49.398)
No, me neither.

MARK HAYES (22:00.91)
Right, what are you trying to say, dummy? Because if you don't know what you're talking about, shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah, we understand when the Democratic Party was in line with the Klan. We understand that. But if you continue to read on, you will find out that the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was done by Democrats in the face, in the face of huge Republican.

opposition southern especially in the south where it still exists.

Brock Ganeles (22:37.768)
Yeah, but even if you just look at today, like forget history, just look at the two parties of where they are today. I mean, it's just an absurd notion, right? mean, Republicans are a white supremacy party right now, right? Democrats actually just had a black woman as their presidential candidate, you know, 16 months ago, 18 months ago or so. I mean, it's not...

MARK HAYES (22:45.132)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (23:06.952)
The two parties aren't the same. So yeah, mean, there's 5 % in flat earthers, so there's outliers to me on every topic. I don't understand people who can be that oblivious to the world. I don't know if it's wealth or that gets them maybe outside of seeing what day-to-day people go through. I can't explain it. I can't spend too much time trying to figure it out either.

MARK HAYES (23:07.018)
and she was the vice president.

MARK HAYES (23:35.435)
No. No.

Brock Ganeles (23:36.838)
Back to Barclay, I'm happy he used his platform. Yes, he walked in gingerly, but he made a strong statement and it was with a big audience and he gets listened to and it resonated and we need more people with the platform doing that.

MARK HAYES (23:43.362)
Yeah. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (23:51.757)
Yep. And back to Nick Cannon real quick and Chili. I'd love to see their voting records. Yeah. And by the way, DL Hughley was airing out Chili and Nick Cannon this morning on his radio show. So always love DL coming through in the clutch. DL doesn't take any of that bullshit. you know, Nick Cannon.

Maybe just trying to spark some attention for himself or for his horrific platform or whatever. Who knows? You're trying to add something to the show. It's not gonna make white folks watch Wild N Out. White folks are not watching Wild N Out. They don't even know what it is. I don't even get it.

Brock Ganeles (24:41.16)
I don't know what it is. Never heard of it.

MARK HAYES (24:44.396)
Yeah, it's like this, it's like a hip hop comedy show. And so, you know, hip hop, rap stars come on, you get on a team and then they play to dozens. Like they have these games that, you know, are based and rooted in comedy. you know, it's, trust me, it's not worth watching. I've tried to watch it. It wasn't that funny to me. Some parts of it were.

Brock Ganeles (24:48.847)
Okay.

MARK HAYES (25:13.902)
But you know, of the, now some of the comedians are funny. I'd watch them if they did a standup. Nick Cannon to me is not funny. So whatever. All right, before we get out of here, Yukon Duke. Only one can go. Only one can go. And I mean, the slipper doesn't have to fit. Neither one of them were Cinderella's. But I thought, I left the game. Duke was up by 15, coming out of the hat.

I'm like, what in the world happened?

Brock Ganeles (25:47.514)
second year in a row do fizzles in the last five to six minutes

MARK HAYES (25:49.666)
got their throats ripped out in the clutch.

Brock Ganeles (25:55.965)
mean, know what? A part of it gets back to our conversation we had about coaches and who gets coaching jobs. I'm going to go a little full circle on this. First of all, NC State just in Carolina State hired a basketball coach. Ex player coming back to coach NC State. White guy.

MARK HAYES (26:16.568)
Right guy. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (26:17.72)
Shit I don't remember a white guy on NC State since like Corciani and Tom Gugliani from like the 90s but they found an ex-player white guy to come back right. We'll see now who North Carolina hires but I saw a statistic a guy a sports radio guy had in the last five years Hubert Davis and Tom Izzo had the exact same record in the regular season over the last five years. Izzo's gone to Hall of Fame, Hubert Davis got fired. Hubert Davis actually won a championship

MARK HAYES (26:24.782)
Bye.

Brock Ganeles (26:47.056)
more recently than Izzo.

MARK HAYES (26:48.973)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (26:58.662)
The guy expected to be Cal Foster expected to be the number six, Cal Wilson, the number six pick in the NBA draft got injured and wasn't available in the tourney. Well, if Cameron Boozer was injured for Duke, they probably wouldn't have gotten as far either. So, I mean, you can't, and he got fired.

MARK HAYES (27:13.919)
He did, right. Right. The best player in the squad.

Brock Ganeles (27:18.768)
for a bad performance even though his top player got hurt headed into the tournament even though over a five-year period had the same record as Tom Izzo is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time and even though he's won a championship North Carolina had to pull the plug on him because the program was going in the wrong direction when it comes back to Duke Yonshire is a great player I think he's gonna be a great coach and wow does he stack the Duke team every year he's been there three four years

MARK HAYES (27:36.567)
Right.

Ha ha ha.

Brock Ganeles (27:48.125)
getting great talent, they're winning a ton of games. It's kind of bizarre that maybe bizarre that they fizzled, but it also, it also comes back to the fact that he was promoted from an assistant coach to a head coach and that change of seat from the second guy to the first one is a huge leap and most coaches have to take a step back.

MARK HAYES (27:58.358)
years in a row.

Brock Ganeles (28:15.132)
coach a smaller team get successful somewhere and then come back and coach the top team like in Auburn where Pearl Sun took over and was in way over his head because that changes seat from but it's almost like from vice president to president changes everything and in my opinion Duke loses is losing right now because their coach is learning how to become a head coach on the job.

MARK HAYES (28:19.804)
And then...

MARK HAYES (28:32.002)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (28:41.69)
and in the big games and the big moments he doesn't have the experience and as a coach he doesn't yet have the poise or know how to prepare his team for those moments and Dukes made that choice and they're going to live with the fact that they have a young coach they think is going to be good down the road but like teams don't fall apart all the time when you know they're well led.

MARK HAYES (28:57.89)
Well, Bronson.

MARK HAYES (29:03.726)
Rocky, look what happened last night, right? You break the press and you win. You're in the final four. They turn the ball over and get what, a 40 footer drained on him? Like it doesn't get much worse than that. But again, prior to that timeout, he should have had a play ready to go. To break. Yes, they didn't have to play it out. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (29:28.422)
He could have called the time out. They didn't have to play under duress. Right. He could have settled him down, talked through, may not have changed anything. It's still 18 year old kids on the floor in the most pressured moments of their lives. I don't care if their father was an NBA player and they were great high school players. There's nothing that compares to the whole nation watching in that moment. Mistakes happen. Hey, I remember a game back in high school when Peekskill couldn't get the ball in with four seconds left.

Some guy stole it, dribbled down the court, dished it off, lay up at the buzzer. It happens all the time. Young people make mistakes no matter, but two years in a row, think, you know, they're, they're, they're making the bet on a good, young, talented white coach. I agree with them. They should stick with him. He's make, he's winning games. He's going to build a great program, but there's no doubt that a more veteran coach, there's little doubt.

MARK HAYES (29:58.241)
And we did it.

MARK HAYES (30:06.444)
Yep.

Brock Ganeles (30:27.932)
that a more veteran coach has been there before that's been a head coach and been in those situations multiple and multiple times has his team better prepared down the stretch than Duke has been two years in a row now. My opinion, my opinion.

MARK HAYES (30:42.712)
Well, Brock, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Duke has put out some of the most well-rounded individuals when it comes to the game of basketball, right? Maybe not the best pros, but some guys with real je ne sais quoi, with presence, with obvious academic intellect.

and basketball intellect as well. Why can't you send Shane Badier, Johnny Dawkins, Tommy Amaker? I mean, just think about the list if we went back 20, 30 years of African-American talent that's come through Duke. And now you're telling me you can't find an alum to come and coach that team with as much or more experience

Where's Johnny Dawkins at Harvard? What? Amaker's at Harvard. What do you gotta do? Right? What does Amaker have to do to get a power five job? And I'm not talking about the Ivies, right? The Ivies.

Brock Ganeles (31:44.335)
And the Cruiser Harbor.

Brock Ganeles (31:58.793)
How's he not considered for the Carolina job? How's he not on the list? Why wouldn't he be on the list? Because he went to Duke? I don't think it matters at this point.

MARK HAYES (32:02.174)
Exactly. Exactly. Because he went to do it.

MARK HAYES (32:09.248)
No, it doesn't because the kids he's recruiting don't know that he played at Duke and they don't care. Exactly. Why was he not on the list for the North Carolina State job?

Brock Ganeles (32:14.898)
Don't care.

Brock Ganeles (32:21.382)
Bobby Knight played basketball at Ohio State. He was the Indiana coach for 30, 40 years. No one was worried that, it's a rival right next door or whatever, right? It was irrelevant. It's irrelevant when it gets a coach.

MARK HAYES (32:30.402)
Right, right, right. Nobody even talks about it. Nobody even talks about it. Nobody talks about his time at West Point. know, nobody talks about Sheshesky at West Point, right? But you know, there's always a different stance. See this, and this is why, you know, when you see African-American men and you want to call them the angry black man, people think we don't pay attention to this shit. We have conversations nonstop about this.

non-stop, right? And then we're furious when something like Charon Moore happens up at Michigan. Right? Look at Juwan Howard. He didn't get any rope up there. He's one of the Fab Five. Put the program literally on the map. I mean, change the culture in everything. I mean, now don't get me wrong, Michigan basketball had begun prior, but geez, when those five guys went there,

I'm those six rather actually if you add, who was the sixth guy that was coming off the bench? gosh. I can't think of it, but yeah, I mean the team changed the way college basketball operated and, the way change the shorts we wore, right? Change the socks, changed everything.

Brock Ganeles (33:38.319)
I can't remember the sixth guy.

MARK HAYES (33:57.995)
And those guys, remember they were treated like they stole something. They were treated.

Brock Ganeles (34:06.568)
Yeah, Jalen Rose playing video games, almost got arrested. I was a huge Jalen Rose guy. Oh yeah, there so much racism around that team.

MARK HAYES (34:11.192)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (34:15.392)
Yep. But you know, it is...

Brock Ganeles (34:17.624)
I would be with you. I'd be so frustrated the the coaching thing goes. I'm watching all these coaches getting hired. It's the same routine and who gets the assistant jobs that gets them into the position to get the head coaching job, who gets the mid-major jobs that gets to make the bump up, you know, which how many programs, somebody in the chat mentioned Deion Sanders, but yeah.

Big name like Deion Sanders can move the needle, right? But who's that guy that's not that well known? Because think of like Michigan's coach Dusty May, Arizona's like Tommy Loy. Like you've never heard of these guys as players. You have no idea who these guys were.

MARK HAYES (35:01.571)
Right?

Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (35:05.956)
and they're all over college basketball and even in the NBA. It's mostly not top players that are getting the coaching jobs, but it's the system. Samlin came on the chat the other day, what are you misery about? What are you complaining about this and that? Maybe they were thinking it was you and it was really me.

MARK HAYES (35:10.402)
Yep. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (35:29.254)
You know, it's just, it's just like, it's, it's systematic racism working its way in. It's just the inability. It's, it's almost like the college quarterback, black quarterback syndrome with the coaches, you know, where there's just so few of them. It's like, well, you know, black, I can't really lead a program because these programs now they're really like businesses.

MARK HAYES (35:42.144)
yeah. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (35:54.584)
Right?

Brock Ganeles (35:55.082)
can a black guy really lead an organization as a business? Because it's not just about the coaching on the floor anymore. Now it's about managing the NIL and managing the budgets and it's a whole staffing thing. It's dealing with the boosters and corporate sponsors. And we need to you need to be like a CEO to be a coach now. Well, as we know, all CEOs are white men. So there we there we go. Right. Ergo. And we come to the same conclusion and self-fulfilling.

MARK HAYES (36:08.621)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (36:14.764)
Yep.

MARK HAYES (36:23.618)
Yep, yep, I'm going woke. Yes I am. My friends call me Ghost. All right, bro.

Brock Ganeles (36:32.647)
It's frustrating. All right.

MARK HAYES (36:35.702)
Yes, indeed. Let's get back here and do it again tomorrow. Our time's up. We're out of here.

Brock Ganeles (36:40.552)
Alright, well yeah, we went into overtime, unlike Duke wasn't able to get there. Alright Mark, always a pleasure, and yeah, we'll pick it up tomorrow. Thanks to the guys in the chat, my friend, call me Ghost, always welcome to chime in, thank you.

MARK HAYES (36:45.624)
Thank you.

Yes, sir.

MARK HAYES (36:55.936)
Yes, indeed. Thanks for joining us.

Brock Ganeles (36:59.982)
Alright Mark, talk to you tomorrow.

MARK HAYES (37:01.647)
All right, buddy, see you then.