2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

Brock Ganeles (00:00.046)
This is big.

Mark Hayes (00:03.079)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're back. Two men in black and white. Hey, taking a look outside today. 3,000 protests in full effect. No King's Day is, wow, in full swing. You know how I know it was working? Ruby Red, Georgia. Traffic this morning, nonexistent. A normal hour and 20 minute commute took me, ready? 40 minutes. That's almost

No traffic at all. No bottlenecks did I hit. Not at 285, not at 985. Headed in for therapy this morning. No traffic at all. Even on a Friday, you get bottlenecks in Atlanta. Brock and Ellis joins me now live. Two men in black and white. I'm Mark Hayes. And we're just a couple of yahoos with streaming capability that like to look at the political shit show that is Donald Trump through our respective community lenses. Brock.

3,000 protests around the nation, even in the nation's capital, gumming up the works on Capitol Hill, stopping traffic. Wow, the people are pissed, but are they pissed enough for you, my friend?

Brock Ganeles (01:15.688)
to see that there was that much activity today. was, I didn't think there would be. I just didn't have a sense of a great buzz headed into it, but it's encouraging. I mean, are people mad enough? Certainly the boiling point is approaching. I mean, the, the left side of the ledger is just, it's, it's getting to that, that point. I mean, I, I'm waiting for the next

massive street protest, right? And I want to see if it's unified because I'm figuring black America now has reached a boiling point or maybe more. More. You guys are going to be out there on the street. It's not going to be just a bunch of 60 year old white people. Maybe even some young people now are starting to get mad enough, to join the movement. Cause if they do, it will topple over. Maga Maga is a

small percentage of the country that happens to have all the levers of power.

Mark Hayes (02:18.861)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. I think, you might be onto something with Black America. Lots of people pissed about the Voting Rights Act being gutted by John Roberts. John Roberts and his other five nincompoops, including the biggest sellout in American history, Clarence Uncle Ruckus Thomas, has really hacked off Black people this time.

The black community is livid. had a couple of conversations with some of my contemporaries yesterday at lunch about how furious they were and upset they were with the Voting Rights Act. Remember, this didn't take place till 1965. That's the year I was born, the year before you were born. This is not ancient history. We've been a democracy for 65, for 60 years. That's it. That's it. My parents,

went to the colored water fountain. Right? They remember the whites only signs at the lunch counter. My father's baseball team in the mid fifties traveling through the Carolinas and throughout the southeast portion of America had to go to the back of the restaurant to pick up food for their team to eat. So this is not ancient history. This is our lifetime. And,

I know we talked a lot about Eddie Glaude on his last two appearances on MSNOW, the rage that African-Americans are feeling. But I shared that clip with not only you, but some of my other Caucasian friends. And they were just as disturbed as the rest of us. And this is all about the money. It's all about power.

And hate is the driving force behind keeping the money and power in one place. And that's what we're looking at now. Donald Trump made it cool to hate again. I mean, that was his slogan, make America hate again. And now it's time for us to do something about it. If we're not on the picket lines, we're definitely going to be

Mark Hayes (04:44.519)
behind the scenes registering as many people as possible to vote and making sure everyone's voter registration is intact and that everyone gets to the polls.

Brock Ganeles (04:57.645)
Yeah, black America going to have to come out in droves. But if we get back to Eddie Cloud, I mean, I want to hear more from him. Always thought he was good. But on this topic, damn, he was he's moving on this topic, talking about how many dead bodies there are in the bottom of the Mississippi River of black people who wanted to exercise their right to vote. But this isn't some theoretical paper pushing, you know.

Mark Hayes (05:16.915)
You're planning to vote.

I like what you do, too.

Brock Ganeles (05:26.593)
you know, minor bureaucratic change. This is fundamentally stripping democracy away from a portion of the citizenry. This is like serious shit you're carving out. Like this is a 100 year walk back, arguably a 200 year walk back in what we would consider to be American progress of a country that never had reached its ideals, right? We've never fulfilled the dream and the paper.

Mark Hayes (05:52.837)
No, never live up to it.

Brock Ganeles (05:56.396)
that the forefathers wrote, which was flawed as well. But I always laugh at when I hear about a justice is an originalist. Like it's the actual words of the Constitution they want to go by word by word, right? Like, like, you know, Bible thumpers. But this country never, white America never tried to live by the word of the Constitution. It was always trying to carve different groups out and keep power. It's a democracy only when it works.

Mark Hayes (06:09.372)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (06:26.167)
for them. So Eddie Lowe's a great spokesman on this topic and I'm happy to hear other white friends of yours who you sent the clips to were, you know, sympathetic.

I worry not enough of what America is.

Mark Hayes (06:42.951)
Yeah, but I mean, look, you're only as good as your weakest link, right? We know that from sports and sports culture. So why do we not want and why do we actively try to keep the others beneath white America? white America has so much, Brock. I mean, how much do they really, how much do these 83

billionaires really need. What are they, four or five black billionaires in America? I mean, come on, let's be honest. I mean, what are these guys really need?

Brock Ganeles (07:27.597)
don't think that...

called the MAGA world really cares about the best version of America. They are focused on the best version of America for them and they've backed into that justifying that thinking by arguing that this is a white Christian nation. Ergo, when the nation works on their behalf, it's the best version of the nation. So they've created a circular thought pattern that works for them.

Mark Hayes (07:33.619)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Hayes (07:37.467)
true that.

Brock Ganeles (08:01.111)
So they're they're not trying to fulfill America's vision as a true, fair, equal democracy. They're not. They've, they've changed the wording and they played the game to argue it needs to work in, you know, into their behalf. And we have to fight back from it because if there's no fight back, it's just going to happen. They've given us the blueprint. We know they're trying to.

Mark Hayes (08:11.613)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (08:30.957)
pull every lever of power that they have, play every game that they can play, whether it be at the local level, all the way up to the Supreme Court, right? They're trying to pull every level possible to make it an uneven playing field. So in any way where anyone isn't pushing back or is complacent, they're just gonna take ground. Like if you don't hold ground, they're gonna take ground.

Mark Hayes (08:54.707)
Right. Wow. It's frightening that, you know, in 2026, we are literally driving the car full speed backwards. We're going straight back in time. How is that helping us globally? And I know your answer. Again, MAGA doesn't care about the global standing of America.

because they don't know anything about the global standing of America because they don't know anything about the globe. So my point is the richest 25 Americans understand the global implications of this backslide. In essence, it's costing them money. Well, we already know from the Citibank study that racism, what from 20

from 2000 to 2020 cost us what? Trip $16 trillion.

Brock Ganeles (09:56.366)
don't think it's affecting them yet. I don't think it's affecting them business-wise yet. think even the war they've skirted around. I don't think it's hurt American multinationals, particularly the tech companies. Oil companies are doing great. so are the tech companies hurt yet? I'd argue no, but I think Europe's going to start going after them.

Mark Hayes (10:01.651)
Hmm.

Mark Hayes (10:11.249)
there.

Brock Ganeles (10:20.545)
Right? Europe wants Musk to show up and explain why he's got like, you know, all kinds of Nazi shit on his fucking AI grok. You know, I think hopefully they, you know, they call Zuckerberg in to explain why he, you know, basically lied about the fact that he knew his platform is addictive to eight year old girls and like that they do a massive crackdown because that's what's going to take for those oligarchs to react is when someone pinches their pocketbook.

and no one in America is willing to do it. No one in power in America is willing to do it, but there's, but there's a growing movement on the left to go hard after the robber barons. California's going to may have a ballot initiative for significant taxes on the ultra wealthy and it's bubbling up.

Mark Hayes (10:56.209)
Right.

Mark Hayes (11:05.606)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (11:16.371)
on the Democratic side of the ledger Mondani's, you know, and even has Kathy Hoke on board in New York to tax like second homes. So I think that's where the left is going. The centrist, the centrist lefts are done. Janet Mills, Janet Mills is the canary in the coal mine. mean, centrist gems have no fucking chance. And keep an eye on Michigan. Keep an eye on the Michigan Senate race. Three candidates. Schumer's candidate got booed out of the room. Haley Stevens.

Mark Hayes (11:22.823)
Yep. Yep.

Mark Hayes (11:33.507)
done like dinner.

Brock Ganeles (11:46.22)
Mallory McMorrow is sinking. And the third guy whose name I forget, who's the ultra progressive Muslim guy, he's rising in the polls. It's where the energy is on the left. I think, I don't think we're going to be talking about any centrist come the fall.

Mark Hayes (12:02.033)
No, there's no such thing anymore. There's no such thing anymore because the right has pushed us so far left that there's no place else to go. You can't be in the middle anymore, brah.

Brock Ganeles (12:16.877)
There's still there's still some guys trying to do it. You know, Gotchheimers and I mean, Jared Golden's on his way out. Alyssa Slockins of the world, the ones who think that their national security Democrats and they have to, you you know, pretend play tough. But now they're even seeing our military's being misappropriated. Ron Jr. and fucking Eric Trump's companies winning government contracts. So our military's become corrupt.

Mark Hayes (12:36.593)
Yep, misused.

Brock Ganeles (12:45.983)
It's just another cudgel that Trump uses to shake down the world and sends Jared and Witkoff out there to do the military shakedown to enrich himself. mean, the military is corrupt right now. So that argument doesn't work.

Mark Hayes (13:02.375)
Not at all. Not at all. you know, again, Brock, you know, the way our military is being misappropriated and think, Brock, we've hit $25 billion. What could we have done with $25 billion, right? Besides make all these defense contractors rich. Like if we've spent $25 billion already, how much more do they plan to spend?

You know, and what do they plan to do next? You don't have any answers for the Iranian attack, for the Iranian beat down that we're taking, you know? And, you know, look, they're losing the propaganda war, Trump and his idiots. They don't understand the attack that's beaten the hell out of them. They've got people who don't understand.

modern day warfare leading the joint. Pete Hexseth is half in the bag trying to tell them what to do. I mean, is a just, okay, we've got to get back to exceptionalism, the requirement of the standard of excellence at the highest levels, right? Electing idiots and hate mongers as leaders is never going to work out well for you.

Brock Ganeles (14:24.193)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (14:31.153)
Right? see the, you know, Donald Trump who thought he was, you know, one of the top students at Wharton Business School really wasn't even in the top 100. He was 147th or 146th. Not even one of the top students. You know, his lying and his bullshit, you know, accounts for nothing. All he did was figure out how to steal from the American people and how to loot the American government.

Brock Ganeles (14:58.893)
Yeah, I was wondering, like when they talk about Trump derangement syndrome, I'm like, well, what's deranged about it? First thing I clicked on this morning, I just looked at the New York Times headlines and the first headline was millions of Americans giving up health care basically because they can't afford it after Medicaid subsidies are pulled. And it's like no fucking shit. We talked about that in December.

These Medicaid subsidies are going to get pulled. A whole bunch of Americans are going to go off of health care. And then all of our health care costs are going to go up because everyone, every element of the system is going to have to raise prices to offset both the lost customers and the hospitals are going to have to charge the rest of us more for the patients that they treat that don't have insurance. And it gets more expensive for all of us.

Mark Hayes (15:39.091)
Awesome.

Brock Ganeles (15:50.958)
was obvious. We knew that. So that's the headline today as if it's some sort of revelation. Yeah, that's exactly what we all expected to have happen. So that's just, you know, the headline has been quality of life in America declines due to horrendous decision making by Trump administration. That's really what that headline is. And that type of dynamic is going on, you know, sort of department by department.

Mark Hayes (15:56.177)
HURRY!

Brock Ganeles (16:20.435)
Economic strata by economic strata except for the ultra top. So it comes back around to is America mad enough?

Ghostface kill is in the in the chat saying he thinks seven dollars a gallon gas is like the breaking point I'm not where he came up with that, but if we're at like it's 459 now where I live so it jumped like 20 30 cents in the last 48 hours I had to go fill up later today, so that's gonna be an expensive fill up

Mark Hayes (16:50.428)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (16:54.961)
Right. And think about it.

Brock Ganeles (16:56.075)
So is that what's going to trigger it? Obviously the voting is targeted just to black America. White America sees it as unfair. Black America is directly, directly impacted. But the economic aspects impact all of us. So to finish the point, additional military spending we have to do, because we're such bumblers in how we go about using our

Mark Hayes (17:02.556)
Right.

Mark Hayes (17:21.693)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (17:26.431)
our military and our Navy is going to cost us so much money because now we're going to have to allocate more money to rearm all these branches of the military. It's just a circular idiocy.

Mark Hayes (17:40.893)
Yep, it's gonna be so expensive to replenish the ammo lost in this fucking skirmish because these folks have no idea what they're doing and had no idea what was coming at them. know, again, they didn't respect the intelligence, they didn't respect the Iranians capability and now we've gotta pay for it.

We've got to pay for it, just like healthcare. They didn't understand how the shit works. Most hospitals are non-profits or not profitable. There are a few that make money because they understand the business of it, but most hospitals are losing. Grady Hospital, level five trauma center in Atlanta. One of the best hospitals in, hey, hey, bro.

If we're hanging out and I get shot, get me to Grady. I don't care how far in the red they are. They're a training hospital. One of the best in the country. And for trauma, I mean, they fly people in from all over the southeast, right? Because they're really good at what they do. So, you know, it's, they don't understand the dollars and cents of, they think they do, but it's their racism that drives them.

They think only poor white folk and brown people are using emergency rooms for healthcare, for primary healthcare. It's a joke. It's a joke. Ghostface Killer is right. Healthcare shouldn't be for profit. You know, it shouldn't be a business. It isn't in many other industrialized nations.

Brock Ganeles (19:30.187)
The question is when we come out of Trump 2.0 and move to like, you know, new America 1.0, new version of America 1.0, is universal healthcare on the table? Should be, right? Absolutely should be. Like we need radical changes. We're not like, there is no going back. One thing that I'm encouraged about is the sense of going back.

Mark Hayes (19:42.725)
It better be.

It better be.

Brock Ganeles (19:55.756)
has kind of been wiped out of the lexicon. You don't hear many people saying that there's a growing consensus that we need to move to a new America. And once again, it's the progressives that are leading that thought pattern. It's not the centrists. And that's why the centrists are, just losing the argument of ideas. And they're...

Mark Hayes (20:17.319)
Right?

Brock Ganeles (20:19.317)
I think they're going to get wiped out along with MAGA because they look and sound more like MAGA than they do progressive dems.

Mark Hayes (20:28.519)
Yep. And you know, the more you sound like that, the more you get lumped in with them. And when you get lumped in with MAGA, you cannot be a part of a productive conversation. We already know that. We already know that. Nobody's entertaining MAGA shit after this is over, right? And we're gonna have to have that reckoning on race that you and I have been talking about going on two years now, because this cannot stand.

We are the only country in the world that is still trying to systematically keep down portions of the population. That's why every other nation is experiencing growth and technology advances. Look look what we did to the CDC. Look what we did to the department of education. Look, why do you intentionally make your nation

less healthy and less educated. That's not what the Chinese are doing. That's not what Japan is doing. That's not what the European Union is doing.

Brock Ganeles (21:41.006)
God, they're fighting. We are winning the battle for all the smartest minds. The smartest people in the world were coming here, could live a free life, a lucrative life. We were that land of opportunity for them. We're losing the scientists. We're losing the thought leaders, because why do they want to be here? We're anti-science. But Mark, bigger point. Back to the political point. Maybe it's not a bigger point, but I want to see Black America

Mark Hayes (21:41.085)
Why are we doing it?

Mark Hayes (22:03.055)
Any?

Brock Ganeles (22:08.549)
absolutely label themselves no longer as Democrats, but absolutely as progressives. And the entire camp of Black America sits at the furthest part to the left where the most progressive voices are.

Mark Hayes (22:16.592)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (22:27.837)
and start dictating the language that comes out of the progressive side of the movement and tip the scales and the Democratic Party all the way to the left. Cause that's where the discussion of a wrecking on race can happen. It ain't happening in the middle. Lisa Slotkin, Jason Crowe, those jokers, they're not having it. Gotenheimer and these other, you know, problem solvers, they want no part of that discussion.

Mark Hayes (22:45.137)
No. Nope.

Mark Hayes (22:55.813)
No. None whatsoever.

Brock Ganeles (22:56.779)
progressive movement will have that discussion. It'll have the universal health care discussion. It'll have education discussions and it'll definitively have an absolute overhaul of the tax code.

Mark Hayes (23:08.335)
Right. You know, Brock, if we don't have this reckoning on race, you're already seeing so many people fleeing the country. Some of our best and brightest are looking elsewhere for opportunity around the world and finding it. People are finding happiness in other places. People are leaving the US and keeping their jobs because they're remote. You know?

I've been thinking, hey, if I can live in Panama, not be followed around the mall, not be cussed at, not have shit thrown at me because I'm brown, why wouldn't I? You Panama, a lot of these Latin American countries have wonderful healthcare at a fraction of the cost. I can live a less stressful life.

still have a good income or maybe retire with money that is now going a whole lot further than it would here in this fuckstain. And why isn't that appealing? You know, we may have to do without, you know, some of the common conveniences of America, but I say fuck it. America doesn't deserve my tax dollars anymore because they don't respect my dollar.

Brock Ganeles (24:33.995)
They don't deserve my tax dollars either.

Mark Hayes (24:36.115)
They don't respect our dollars. So why are we giving them to them? Why are we paying for everything when the richest among us pay nothing?

Brock Ganeles (24:47.661)
The other thing that would come with a huge surge of...

Brock Ganeles (24:56.289)
Democrats identifying as progressives would be a doubling back down on green energy because let's face it, if we had more electric cars, if we'd move faster in our move to electric cars and not hung on to all our gas guzzlers.

Mark Hayes (25:06.163)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (25:17.665)
We, the, the, as ghostface killer mentions, the petro dollar game wouldn't be as strong. wouldn't care about the middle East wouldn't be able to cripple our economy anymore. the whole point was to divorce ourselves from that, from, of still being tied to middle East OPEC in essence. And we let an idiot like Trump.

Mark Hayes (25:28.157)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (25:41.269)
derail the green energy movement because think about how much further along we would be if there wasn't a Trump 1.0 and now he slammed the brakes on it in Trump 2.0 and we don't have near the adoption of European countries and with the amount of oil that we already have we should be 100 % independent and we should be laughing at the world when shit like well even when we make idiotic mistakes like this and fuck up the global economy.

Mark Hayes (25:51.667)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (26:05.521)
Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (26:07.021)
but we let an idiot derail us. So we just need more and more of a push. I'm making an appeal to the black community to embrace the progressive side of the movement and find their home there and argue for more and more of these policies, but also mandate that you're only there if there's going to be a reckoning on race and just say, yeah, we're in for all this other shit.

If only the reckoning on race happens first.

Mark Hayes (26:42.383)
Right, right. I'm with you on that bro. I mean, because that's the only place it can happen. Is on the far left. That's the only place. So, all right, give me a quick hit so we can get out of here on a Friday. I need a tall cold one. Take the edge off.

Brock Ganeles (27:04.525)
Did you see the comments? We're going to talk a little sports and of course society and politics, but do you see the comments coming out as some of the black players on the San Antonio Spurs about Danny Evita, the Israeli player on the trailblazers? So this is why American Jews are in a box of their own making because

Mark Hayes (27:20.656)
No!

Brock Ganeles (27:32.982)
Magda's anti-Semitic. We watched him walk around Charlotte with tiki torch saying, geez, Jews will not replace us. The Klan didn't love Jews either. We weren't the first targets, but let's just be honest in a white supremacy Nazi movement, Jews are not really welcome. But on the other side of the ledger, the Democrats have supported Israel way too much to the point

Mark Hayes (27:39.89)
Right.

Mark Hayes (27:45.106)
Nope.

Mark Hayes (27:50.289)
Yep. Yep.

Mark Hayes (28:00.903)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (28:01.835)
where we let Netanyahu go out of control and commit war crimes in our name with our backing and our weaponry. And now this is why anti-Semitism is rising. I'm not condoning the comments that they're going after an Israeli player. You would hope that that would be left, you know, off the court at least, right? But

Mark Hayes (28:27.347)
Hmm.

Brock Ganeles (28:29.857)
the, you know, the Chuck Schumer's, the Jews that still want to support an Israel that's rogue, aren't going to get the support. Certainly what I'm from, what I'm seeing a black America or of the world. And that leaves American Jews in a quandary, except I think the only way out is, the one I've taken, which is you can't support this version of Israel any more than you can support this version of the United States.

Mark Hayes (28:41.906)
Alright.

Mark Hayes (28:55.377)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (28:58.839)
But it was disappointing to see, but it wasn't surprising to see that they're basically yelling free up Palestine at Danny Evita, who's the star on the trailblazer after they knocked him out of the playoffs. There was like no respect for him. There was like some shit talking on the court.

Mark Hayes (28:59.034)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (29:11.682)
wow.

Mark Hayes (29:18.055)
Really? Wow.

So keeping it in sports in black and white, for the third time since 2020, no African-American players, well, no players, period, from HBCUs drafted in this year's NFL draft. Third time.

I don't get it. I don't get it. And up until, I want to say up until about maybe 2015, South Carolina State had more Hall of Famers than Clemson and the University of South Carolina combined.

Brock Ganeles (30:04.791)
You think this is economics and NIL that with the money that's flowing from these other schools that they're just, they're the top talents not going HBCUs just because there's so much more money come in if they go play somewhere else. Okay.

Mark Hayes (30:20.837)
No. I think that if you look at the greatest players of all time, look where they've come from. Jerry Rice, Mississippi Valley State, Walter Payton, Jackson State, Harry Carson, South Carolina State, Donnie Schell, South Carolina State, Mel Borg.

Brock Ganeles (30:42.465)
But my question is, would Jerry Rice, a senior in high school, Jerry Rice, would he still go to Mississippi State or would he go to Ohio State and get paid like four million as a freshman? Like is the economics just like it's become pro miniature, pro football. And therefore, if you're not a school that has like massive dollars behind it and the HBCUs aren't funded well enough to compete in this new professional

sports world. That's, that would be my worry that they're getting priced out because because of the 17 to one economic disparity that you always talk about between white and black America.

Mark Hayes (31:25.029)
Right. No, I get what you're saying, but it's always been that way for the HBCUs. Right? The big schools have always had exponentially larger budgets. you know, players go to the HBCUs because that's who came to talk to them. You know, these, look, the SEC teams are all going after the same kids. Right?

They're not looking at a kid who's going to be good two, three years down the road, right? But Morgan State is, Howard is, Southern is, Grambling is, and we're going after the kids we can get, right? Because quite frankly, you don't recruit a kid who's a four or five star who you're going to have to give a bag to, if you're an HBCU college coach.

It just doesn't make sense because you're not going to be able to compete. Now there's going to be those outliers that come and say, hey, you know, I want to get the kind of education that Howard University is offering. You know, that's going to happen every now and then, but it's not going to happen that often because we put a premium on singing, dancing, jumping, performing, scoring touchdowns. We don't put a premium on Victor Glover.

who was the astronaut who's traveled the furthest in outer space, who was an African American. We don't glorify his accomplishment. You don't see him on the six o'clock news. I mean, we didn't even barely talk about race when that happened. So I think that the HBCUs are facing the same uphill climb they've been facing.

And that is, you know, we're seen as second class citizens. But the HBCU is the only place you can go. And I know this because I went to a PWI that I transferred to an HBCU. And the HBCU is where the teachers knew my name.

Brock Ganeles (33:40.567)
What's PWI?

Mark Hayes (33:42.813)
Predominantly white institution.

Brock Ganeles (33:48.631)
That's pretty much most schools, okay.

Mark Hayes (33:50.719)
Exactly. But at Howard, I had teachers that were involved in the civil rights movement. I had teachers that lived it, professors that lived it, professors who were there when Stokely Carmichael came, professors who were there when Cassius Clay, Muhammad Ali visited our campus.

The mayor of Newark, New Jersey was a classmate, led the takeover of the administration building when they tried to put Lee Atwater on the board of trustees.

Brock Ganeles (34:30.381)
Okay, let me say something that may piss you off then. Maybe, maybe you shouldn't give a shit about whether or not the HBCUs can pump out NFL talent and let them, let them pump out great athletes in everything else but sports, great academics, great doctor and let the top black athletes go make the most money they can by signing with fucking TCU or Kansas state or

Mark Hayes (34:34.183)
Okay.

Brock Ganeles (35:00.363)
Michigan or Penn State and just let them just let them go make their money in the short amount of time that they can and not try to chase what has, I mean, sports has kind of fallen apart. Like it's not, it's not really cut. They're just, they happen to wear in the Jersey, but they're not really students anymore.

Mark Hayes (35:22.491)
Right, and Brock, the premise doesn't piss me off, it saddens me. Because look, my son was a Division I hockey player. Didn't get a sniff at the NHL. We were almost invited to a development camp for one of the franchises. That was as close as he got. The large majority of these guys are not going pro.

What is there 1600 players in the NFL? 53 teams, mean, 53 players, 32 teams, right? Plus the practice squad where, you you can make that same money at IBM. My point is, you know, at HBCUs, you will get a different kind of mentorship. You don't have to ask for it. You get a, you don't have classes.

with six and 700 people in lecture halls, right? There is an intimacy at HBCUs. At Howard University, Tuesday and Thursday in the School of Business, you must wear a shirt and tie, okay? You don't get that at PWIs. And there is a reason for it. At Howard University, Fortune 500 companies are recruiting the School of Business, right? Our engineering school, our hospital.

our School of Dentistry, right? You find yourself at an HBCU. My father will tell you Shaw University was responsible for the success he

Brock Ganeles (36:57.547)
Mark, I hope the HBCU is really, the students really, really get enraged about the fact that their vote is getting taken away. I hope that triggers, because maybe the youth movement has to be started by the black youth, that the white youth is playing video games and still, you know, whining about shit.

Mark Hayes (37:19.099)
It's already underway. South Carolina State students protested the commencement speaker who was the lieutenant governor and a proud, MAGA moron for the state of South Carolina. She will not be speaking at their commencement exercise. Students protested the president acquiesced and rescinded her invitation to speak. She's out of there.

Brock Ganeles (37:43.415)
Good shit. Yeah. And once they learn that they can, once they learn, they can win by protesting, right? It helps to feed on itself. Well, I got one coming back at you since we're talking sports, not that we're getting off as quick as we said, but

Mark Hayes (37:48.977)
Yep. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (37:58.158)
Pretty disappointing that the WNBA, the most progressive sports league in the fucking world, no black coaches.

Brock Ganeles (38:12.141)
80 % of the league is black players, no black coaches. Women coaches, women coaches as there should be, no zero and they just expanded and added what two teams this year.

Mark Hayes (38:12.337)
I'm not

Mark Hayes (38:16.039)
Yep, I'm not surprised.

Mark Hayes (38:21.159)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (38:26.471)
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm not surprised, You know, white women, you know, have been great beneficiaries of, you know, DEI. DEI included white women. So, you know, a lot of people are comfortable. It's about comfortability, remember, right?

Brock Ganeles (38:49.837)
What seems to me that DEI in the WNBA is benefiting white men, because what are they doing with jobs in the WNBA?

Mark Hayes (38:59.549)
The other one's making the money. The other one's making the money as team owners, right? Or team financiers.

Brock Ganeles (39:07.947)
Yeah, but they're hiring white coaches. White men coach, white male coaches.

Mark Hayes (39:10.001)
Yeah. Yeah.

And that's just about every sport. Why would we think the WNBA would be different? Because Dawn Staley's had success? Dawn Staley can't

Brock Ganeles (39:23.925)
because the players have been activists and white guys like me, once again, make the mistake of thinking that trickles up to the ownership box and it doesn't. they're fine with their black athletes, but they won't put them in a position of decision-making. They can perform, but they can't

Mark Hayes (39:30.597)
and will continue to be.

Mark Hayes (39:50.023)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (39:52.693)
manager lead. I mean to me it's just particularly disappointing for that lead.

Mark Hayes (39:57.777)
And that's what we saw here with Kelly Loeffler, whose husband owns the New York Stock Exchange. They got more money than the good Lord himself. And the activism of the players is what got her away from her ownership position. We've got a diverse leadership group now. But do you have to do that in every city in order to get?

you know, you know, diversity among the coaching ranks. You know, one fight at a time, my friend. There's a lot of battles out there to be fought. That's why we need that reckoning on race.

Brock Ganeles (40:41.005)
Yeah, well, you know, I always say when people want to say, hey, you know, politics out of sports. And I'm like, you can't, it reflects society. And in fact, it's a glaring reflection society because it's a part of society that so many of our eyes focus on. It is our great entertainment. So like, yeah, what goes on in sports, you know, is either a reflection of society or very often it's where change happens.

Mark Hayes (40:48.658)
Can't do it.

Mark Hayes (41:06.535)
Yep, yep, and that's the bottom line. You know, I mean, think about it. I went to the University of Texas El Paso, which was also known as Texas Western, which was coached by Don Haskins when I was there, who also integrated college basketball with five black starters for the first time.

Brock Ganeles (41:27.745)
Yeah, first team to have five black starters.

Mark Hayes (41:30.395)
Yeah, so watch the movie Glory Road. know, Don Haskins, the bear coached Tim Hardaway when I was there. So, you know, look, again, we are not that far away from, you know, what America, well, wasn't supposed to be. Again, she never lived up to what she put on paper.

Brock Ganeles (41:54.475)
Yeah. Tomorrow, tomorrow maybe we'll dive in a little bit on the white people who feigned surprise that like race has such a big impact on America and are shocked that the Supreme court made this change and like they've gone through the whole lives, you know, in some fantasy world that race wasn't a huge factor just in the world around them because it didn't impact them. We'll get to that tomorrow for tonight. Mark always a pleasure.

Mark Hayes (42:02.233)
you

Mark Hayes (42:10.108)
Alright.

Mark Hayes (42:16.403)
Let's do it. Yeah.

Mark Hayes (42:24.209)
Revolution.