2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

MARK HAYES (00:00.972)
Here we go. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting edition of Two Minute Black and White. I am your host, Mark Hayes. And wow, everything is off the rails on the Capitol today. We are seeing just how, just what a mess the Department of Justice is right now. From who they're hiring to the way they're handling cases. Jasmine Crockett, absolutely red.

Pammy Jo Bondi, the riot act. And then to make it worse, and let's get right into this Brock analysis here with me now in the beautiful confines of the upper Hudson River Valley. Brock, wow, Pammy Jo refused to apologize to the what? 12, 18 Epstein survivors that were on the hill in the hearing.

She couldn't bring herself to turn around and say, ladies, I am so sorry what you suffered through. And then sat there and tried to declare herself a victim's advocate. What a joke.

BROCK GANELES (01:13.176)
Did she even look at them? I don't think she even looked at them.

MARK HAYES (01:18.346)
I don't think so. I didn't see it. I didn't see it. Not when Ms. Jayapal was getting at her. I mean, and she gave her the business.

BROCK GANELES (01:29.944)
Today had that MAGA in decline kind of feel to it, right? it's... I mean, it may take a long time and we may be screwed and this may be, you know, suck for a while because the mechanism for change is so far away. People think the midterms, midterms feels miles away, but it just feels like a, like a really like a...

MARK HAYES (01:35.082)
Yep. Yep.

MARK HAYES (01:47.935)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (01:53.932)
Like the full Roman Empire must have looked like where it's just there's cracks everywhere. Everyone in a position of power looks like a fool and comes across terrible when once the, you know, kind of the light of day sunlight is shined on them. mean, Bondi looked like a fucking idiot today. She got ripped apart limb by limb.

MARK HAYES (02:18.763)
Huh.

BROCK GANELES (02:21.134)
She lied, she got caught in lies. It was an embarrassment to us that that's our most senior law enforcement official in the entire country. But it also just felt like they can't, there's so many holes in the dam they can't plug them all at the same time. And the Epstein files are just too big. It's a waterfall and she's got a bucket trying to like...

MARK HAYES (02:31.82)
Ugh.

MARK HAYES (02:38.25)
Now.

Yes.

BROCK GANELES (02:48.28)
Hold it back.

MARK HAYES (02:49.332)
Yeah, yeah, bro I I Today was disgusting. It was just disgusting. I mean jamey raskin points out one million trump mentions Right, so we're going in today with one million trump mentions howie lutnick on the on the hill yesterday Looking like a fool talking about how he had lunch with epstein and epstein

showing an interest in his nanny. Okay, who knows that a man is a pedophile and brings his nanny to Epstein Island for her to possibly be victimized. Then jump forward to today, we've got the Epstein victims in the house and we have a woman attorney general who refuses, refuses.

to even apologize and to acknowledge their pain and suffering. And then, and then Jamie Raskin asks the perfect question. Donald Trump is suing the IRS for 80 % of their operating budget, $10 billion. And he wants to know that since Trump's taxes were released, and he was fucking embarrassed because he doesn't pay taxes, because he's a scam artist is what he is.

Don the Con is what he's known as in New York. Jamie Raskin says, how much do these women deserve if he gets that case settled for let's say 2 billion or even 5 billion, right? And they're pointing out the domestic emoluments clause as they're asking this question. And she's got no answers, won't comment on pending litigation. She's a jackal, a hyena.

and she's not a serious person.

BROCK GANELES (04:44.61)
But today we saw exactly why Trump has not fired her and will not fire her. Cause who else is going to go there and do his dirty work in the open, get exposed for it and not budge an inch because they don't care about the rule of law or really American society as we knew it in any way, or form. She's just playing. She's got a powerful position, so she's happy.

MARK HAYES (04:49.108)
Right. Right.

BROCK GANELES (05:13.006)
and she's gonna take care of the mad king as long as she has that seat and she's been taking care of him and covering his ass for decade plus two decades she's she's up to her eyeballs in this shit so she ain't gonna back away she's in it she's part of it maybe i'm not gonna call her a pedophile but she's part of she's she's like exhibit a i she's part of the cover-up yeah

MARK HAYES (05:13.708)
Right.

MARK HAYES (05:23.702)
Yep. Yep.

He's it. Yeah.

MARK HAYES (05:35.094)
part of the cover-up. Definitely.

And she's been in it since the very beginning, right? Down in Florida. She's hooked up with Acosta and all the law enforcement officials who dropped the ball down there in the legal department because the officers, right? All of those 302 files from the FBI and the investigating officers were all redacted. A bunch of black pages that got entered into the record today. All that stuff that the people

responsible for prosecuting these white men in power opted out. And that includes W, Obama, Biden, and now your boy Don the Con looks even worse because his name's all over it. But we can go all the way back to these administrations in the 90s.

BROCK GANELES (06:33.644)
No one wants to touch it.

But you know, as I look at Bondi, I'm like, this is what Epstein did, right? And this is why governments, foreign governments funded and worked with him. Because Pam Bondi got dirtied up by Epstein, like he dirtied up everyone. And she took bribes, right? So on her case, it was money. But then as soon as she was dirty, she was caught, because now it's blackmail. Now you can't go against it.

MARK HAYES (06:38.732)
You know?

MARK HAYES (06:46.444)
One.

MARK HAYES (06:54.548)
Oof. Yep.

BROCK GANELES (07:05.838)
for all these other men they got caught doing dirty shit and once they were in you know like a spider web right once they were in the web no way out professional embarrassment but you know career devastation and the whole kit and caboodle so like just got a bigger and bigger cabal of people protecting each other and

You know if Bandy hadn't taken a bunch of bribes, why would she be doing this otherwise? She wouldn't have gotten her jobs if she didn't take care of these powerful white men and she probably wouldn't have half of her bank account if she didn't take care of these powerful white men. So now she's in and she's as dirty just as dirty as they are.

MARK HAYES (07:30.998)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (07:44.907)
Bye.

MARK HAYES (07:50.848)
Yeah, because we know Brock, it's all about the money. We now know this administration is all about the dough. It's all they give a shit about. They could care less about justice. They could care less about justice for the Epstein victims. They don't care who was molested. They don't care about Virginia Joufray. I mean, here we have Virginia's law being enacted.

And, you know, none of these Republicans, you know, know anything about it. Right? They don't, they don't want to even be associated with it. Right? Because it's removing the statute of limitations so that people can be prosecuted and held accountable for their crimes. And it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that we've got the apparatus of the American government working to protect

pedophiles. Why don't we take a book out of the UK's handbook or take a page out and find out what accountability looks like. See, accountability would hurt a lot here because you'd have a lot of powerful people sitting in jail cells which weren't built for them. Remember, it's built for the others. That's why we're grabbing the others off the street and disappearing them now. Right? That's all Pam Bondi was doing today, holding up pictures.

of people convicted of crime. We don't know what crime they committed. I don't trust you. We don't know who that was on that picture. We never heard of them before until you brought it up today, you hyena.

BROCK GANELES (09:34.54)
Bondi got exposed today. think a little bit more of America, you know, what comes away from because a bunch of these clips are breaking through, right? It's not just a C-span crowd that that watch today. It's all over Instagram and WhatsApp and, you know, tick tock and the like, right? The clips have made it through. People are watching.

MARK HAYES (09:46.145)
yeah.

Right.

MARK HAYES (09:59.627)
no, dad. No dad.

BROCK GANELES (10:00.45)
land bond law and get carved up by various congress people. think it's the Epstein files like

raised in profile today, which means the Trump administration declined in profile today. Having said that, nothing tangible is, I guess more, should pose it as a question. Is anything tangible going to come out of Pam Bondi getting, you know, served up today?

MARK HAYES (10:26.166)
Get roasted. I doubt it, bro. I doubt it. But here's what we know. They're out of their league. MAGA is out of their league. How did Lutnik make so much money? These people are not smart, Brock. They are not smart. Lutnik is a stooge. know, Pam Bondi is a stooge. Pam Bondi's not good at her job.

I mean, Jamie Raskin in his opening statement spent four or five minutes explaining to her how this process was gonna work. Explaining to her when you're a witness on Capitol Hill, we ask the questions, you answer them. You don't pull out your burn book of personal smears, right? She goes to the tab, Jamie Raskin, here's the smear on Jamie Raskin.

You're a failed politician, blah, blah, blah. Answer the fucking questions. And she won't do it because she ain't capable. And she ain't ever ready. She's never ready. They're in way over their head,

BROCK GANELES (11:40.014)
I she doesn't want to answer the questions because an honest answer buries the Trump administration. So, you know, yeah, she's just bad. mean, she's botched the Epstein files on every little Sunday because now she's just almost Trump's ended up looking bad anyway. And in a dragged out cover up, trying to hide the facts kind of way. Bill Barr would have been Bill Barr.

MARK HAYES (11:46.859)
No doubt.

MARK HAYES (11:59.916)
Good show.

MARK HAYES (12:05.84)
Yup.

BROCK GANELES (12:07.842)
just as bad a guy would have been better at this, right? Cause he was just a better bullshitter and he got carved up too. Right? Kamala served him for lunch. Bondi was just one after the other. She was just easy picking. It just shows our DOJ and yet our DOJ is going to have to go out, go after like Letitia James and James Comey and you know, other, you know, basically citizens of the, who are on the left.

MARK HAYES (12:19.804)
ripped in what?

BROCK GANELES (12:35.873)
to try to score political points but none of it's working. They couldn't even get the six congresspeople indicted in DC. That got thrown out. I mean the courts are just in essence... Yeah. The courts are sick and tired of these shenanigans.

MARK HAYES (12:45.45)
That was trash.

MARK HAYES (12:50.442)
Yes. Yes. Did you see her go after the courts? these liberal activist judges. Really? You tried to indict, you went to a grand jury to ask for an indictment against sitting US senators who said to the military, you don't have to accept illegal orders. And you wanted them indicted on sedition charges, which is like treason. Are you kidding me?

BROCK GANELES (13:18.21)
Yeah, I mean, it's fucking ridiculous. mean, she's got people out arresting Don Lemon. I mean, it's, it, but the problem is, the problem is as a country, when rule of law has been degraded to this level, the rule of law is one of the key pillars and foundations that our entire democracy sits on top of. And

MARK HAYES (13:20.736)
Are you an idiot?

MARK HAYES (13:26.42)
Right.

MARK HAYES (13:39.606)
problem.

BROCK GANELES (13:48.862)
Arguably, it's just flat out gone. So what is holding the democracy together? If rule of law is gone and other fundamental rights are gone, like speech and assembly and, you know, against unlawful seizure. You know, what are we standing on top of right now in the Trump era? Like, is it already gone and we have to like actually pull it back?

MARK HAYES (13:52.35)
It is. It really is.

BROCK GANELES (14:18.036)
Or is it just on thin ice and we may fall through with any step we take so we're like gently trying to keep it alive? I don't know where we are in that spectrum, but I don't trust anything. I don't trust anything from the administration to the legal system. I mean, I just don't trust anything.

MARK HAYES (14:24.172)
that takes the lead.

MARK HAYES (14:34.881)
no, how can we?

MARK HAYES (14:42.198)
How can we bro? Like it's awful right now. Our democracy is, if it is in fact being held together, it's being held together with bubble gum and duct tape. I mean, you know, that's the level that these clowns are at.

BROCK GANELES (15:01.102)
But I'm the white guy here, like I'm supposed to believe in this stuff. I mean, this is a system that has worked for me forever, right? Like this is a country I was proud of, right? I'm supposed to be out waving the flag and, you know, bragging about, you know, the shining city on the hill and telling the rest of the world how they need to get their shit in order, right? That's what I've been spending my life doing, telling everybody else that they need to become...

MARK HAYES (15:05.356)
I'm

MARK HAYES (15:15.99)
Bro!

MARK HAYES (15:20.672)
Yeah.

MARK HAYES (15:24.908)
Right?

BROCK GANELES (15:29.698)
democratic and they gotta change the way they do things and and they gotta adopt the American system, right? That's been the shit I've been spewing my whole life. Now I don't believe in anything we're doing. Who do I run as far away from us as possible? That would be my advice to other countries.

MARK HAYES (15:37.814)
Well.

yeah?

Go!

MARK HAYES (15:47.456)
No.

hmm. I've been hearing black people say that all my life. Now that the shining light on the top of the hill and the electricity done been cut off. Welcome to the world of black America. Welcome to living in, in, in such a state of rage, right? With any level of consciousness, right? Isn't that what James Baldwin said? To be aware in America.

BROCK GANELES (16:04.386)
Different cook at.

MARK HAYES (16:19.73)
as a Negro and now as a white American is to be in a constant state of rage. I mean, it has to piss you off as especially as a white American to see Donald Trump saying, you know, screw the American population that ain't in the 1 % because they can't do anything for me. Right. Donald Trump only wants to, to, to hang around.

with the rich folks because they can get him paid. That's what's happening now, right? He's got the levers of power working so they can get him paid. He's like the guy in the Wizard of Oz when we finally lift the blanket up in the back, he's the one making the levers go. I mean.

BROCK GANELES (17:05.57)
But now the rich folks include like emirs from the Middle East. That's right. Whoever has the money, right? It doesn't matter. The borders, whoever has the money is going to get what they need from us as long as they're flowing it into his coffers. that guy, that crypto guy who ripped a ton of people off. he's pardoned. that guy ripped off a bunch of, you know, elderly people for their life savings. he's getting a pardon because he cut me a check, right? So whether it be domestic or internationally.

MARK HAYES (17:13.056)
whatever

MARK HAYES (17:30.795)
Yep.

BROCK GANELES (17:34.604)
You can be a rogue agent. doesn't matter what you do as long as you're writing checks to Trump. Yet he's running around saying, let's shut off a bridge to Canada. Our best and closest ally. Right? I mean.

MARK HAYES (17:44.906)
or China or-

where China is gonna cancel hockey in Canada. What the fuck's he talking about? Did he get hit in the head with a puck? Did he take a puck off the temple? What is he talking about?

BROCK GANELES (17:55.692)
Yeah. What is he talking about?

BROCK GANELES (18:02.988)
And we... And we gotta talk about like he won't fund what the tunnel between New Jersey and New York unless his name's on it. He's gotta have it. Now he wants his name on like Douglas Airport. It's like all this fucking like egotistical crazy narcissism stuff that has nothing to do with anyone's life. And we're just letting this corrupt motherfucker rob us blind while he strips away all the things that we...

MARK HAYES (18:14.336)
Not bad.

BROCK GANELES (18:30.57)
used to say were important to us. Like we're at like a low and we can't find the bottom, right? There's a new bottom every day. And I mean, I'm starting to give the democratic politicians some credit for the fight back because they've learned the language now of confrontation, right? There was no niceties anymore. They've realized that the decorum and the norms don't matter to the other side.

MARK HAYES (18:31.52)
Hold dear.

MARK HAYES (18:37.323)
Right.

Right.

MARK HAYES (18:46.454)
Right.

MARK HAYES (18:51.209)
Right.

Bye.

BROCK GANELES (19:00.298)
And the only game that can be played is to punch them in the nose and embarrass them. Right? Like you have to hammer them over and over and over because it's the only thing they may even have a chance of having them react to. And even then I doubt we're going to get much of reaction out of it. But, you know, I'll tell you what today did.

MARK HAYES (19:00.939)
Nope.

MARK HAYES (19:07.724)
Good luck.

MARK HAYES (19:18.892)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (19:24.098)
Today inspires the resistance though. Even if it doesn't mean shit for MAGA, even if MAGA ignores it, days like today and seeing all those clips make me feel more energized about what maybe I can do to help resist against ICE and all these other atrocities. Cause I saw some fight from leadership today.

MARK HAYES (19:27.69)
Yes. Yes.

MARK HAYES (19:45.536)
Yeah, yeah. And that fight is chipping away at the veneer, right? I mean, it's aluminum siding, right, on a shed that doesn't have a lot of bones to it. So we're chipping away and that house of cards is gonna fall. And when it does, it's gonna fall hard. Because again, the first one in gets the deal, right?

Whoever goes to the FBI when it's reimagined and, you know, reshaped and put back together again, and the DOJ is reimagined and put back together again, just like Humpty Dumpty, we will be prosecuted. I don't want to talk to you. If you come to your confirmation hearing and you're not willing to prosecute these fuckers, you're not.

willing to go in here because you know what needs to be done Brock? All these records, all these emails, because you know they're so dumb, they're emailing each other. We need all those records kept for posterity and for prosecution.

BROCK GANELES (21:03.466)
Reposecution. Absolutely. Look, shifting gears a little bit off the Bondi day and that is that there is some chatter out that there's another Republican congressman who may be resigning, not just not running, but actually resigning like MTG did. And that would take another vote away from Johnson in the House and bring it down to like a one vote majority where a Thomas Massey could just

MARK HAYES (21:06.387)
No doubt.

MARK HAYES (21:19.776)
Thanks.

MARK HAYES (21:24.469)
Night.

BROCK GANELES (21:32.652)
flip the entire script and the switch on everything that's going on. And Congress is blocking Canada's tariffs against Canada. Murkowski's out, she's ripshit because you know they're trying to push through this, what do they call it, the SAVE Act or some horse shit where you know the one that basically is going to take away voting from women, right? Where you gotta, you know if you have your husband's name screwed, you know? So there's some pushback going on. mean Congress, it's, there's a few of them.

MARK HAYES (21:52.64)
Right.

BROCK GANELES (22:02.348)
reading some tea leaves and either fight or flight, right? They're in fight or flight mode. Most of them are, they're more likely to flight, to flee than to fight Trump. But it only takes a couple more of them to flee. And like I said, even just one more of them to start tipping that balance. And wouldn't that make for an interesting 2026 if Mike Johnson loses his majority and the house is sort of a toss up. I can only hope.

MARK HAYES (22:03.486)
Yes.

MARK HAYES (22:07.403)
Yes!

MARK HAYES (22:26.037)
No doubt.

Right.

BROCK GANELES (22:31.447)
Pray that that happens cuz that that that way we maybe can get a little action to happen before the November elections and we have to

MARK HAYES (22:38.75)
Right. Right. And that's what's got to happen. every opportunity, we need to vote these Republicans out. I don't care whether it's in the Senate, whether it's... And we can never let these people back in power, right? Because we see what these jackals want to do to our democracy. I mean, we're not being governed right now. We're being ripped off is what's going on, you know?

I can't wait to see what this settlement is for Trump's suit against the IRS. And that's got to be a public record. It's not like he's going to be able to put that on seal. That's got to be public record because those are government funds that he's going to be stealing. And maybe he did have his rights violated, but that was done by a private citizen. The private citizen, a contractor, leaked his tax information.

So, you know, I don't know why we as the taxpayer have to pay for it. Sue that guy, sue that contractor. He's in jail anyway. What do you, I mean, what more does this clown want? money.

BROCK GANELES (23:51.673)
There's no way a sitting president is going to be able to cut a check for billions of dollars from his own IRS. Trump has the audacity. He'll try anything. He doesn't give a shit what anybody thinks and he just is so greedy. His approval ratings already suck and they're slipping and this is another week that has to hurt his approval ratings.

MARK HAYES (24:18.668)
You're right.

BROCK GANELES (24:18.73)
It's in free fall, Magus cracking. I think it's going to tumble over. It'll probably stumble and bumble though for a lot longer than we hope.

MARK HAYES (24:30.312)
Right, right. And that's the scary part. So, all right, give me a quick hit so we can get out of here, fix your connection and apologize to our viewers out there.

BROCK GANELES (24:39.406)
Oh, a quick hit is as, as, you know, a hit. Brock's on the move because Brock back in his hometown in Peekskill, New York today for some unfortunate reason, for some unfortunate reasons have spent a lot of time back in our hometown. Old stomping grounds, Walter Panis High School over the last, you know, 96 hours or so. And the biggest thing I noticed, and this is really

MARK HAYES (24:46.614)
Yes indeed. Home of the facts of life.

BROCK GANELES (25:07.886)
Upper Westchester County, which is like, gotta be like the heart of middle-class America, right? If you think about it, not so close to the city that it's sort of upper middle-class or high upper class where you're right on those close suburbs. It's like a further suburb, but you know, it's not the country. It's like, you know, the, could write the definition of suburban America. Yeah. You know, what strikes me is even some chatter I'd heard that there are a whole bunch of neighbors out there used to have Trump signs.

MARK HAYES (25:13.236)
No doubt. No doubt.

MARK HAYES (25:28.555)
Right in the middle.

BROCK GANELES (25:37.294)
It'd be a very mixed area, right? Not liberal here, right? Mike Lawler. Mike Lawler's the rep, right? It's like a 50.1 % sort of district right now. Apparently all the Trump signs that used to be out and about and those flags, nowhere to be found. Absolutely nowhere to be found. So I drove all way, I didn't see anything, any vestige of anything pro-Trump around here.

MARK HAYES (25:42.156)
Right.

MARK HAYES (25:54.731)
Yeah.

Really?

MARK HAYES (26:03.724)
Wow. Wow. Well, you know, they're keeping them up down here till the last dying day. You know, I'm in red. I'm a deep red country, so I can't get that lucky. But yeah, well, I'm glad to hear that.

BROCK GANELES (26:19.7)
I wonder, mean, just thinking that, yeah, just to finish, I wonder if people come in the chat who live in maybe more 50 50 ish, even 55 45 districts. If they are seeing that same dynamic of maybe it hasn't changed the voting behavior of people, but it, but certainly their pride in the MAGA movement and the Trump, you know, the crazy Trump, whatever it is, love affair.

MARK HAYES (26:26.956)
Please, please,

MARK HAYES (26:35.114)
Yeah.

BROCK GANELES (26:49.79)
It definitely just has the sense that that at least has been stripped away.

MARK HAYES (26:49.953)
Right.

Right.

BROCK GANELES (26:56.31)
Am I being too optimistic and hopeful?

MARK HAYES (26:56.596)
Right, right, right, right.

Yes, you are. But you're the white guy. You're supposed to be. Hey, more Olympic news. Good news though. On the funny side. Have you seen these Milan, Cortina.

BROCK GANELES (27:02.026)
Okay, okay. What do you got for me?

I try to hang on to it. What do you got for me?

MARK HAYES (27:28.38)
Olympic mascots, Milo and Tina. Apparently they're all the rage and the toy, you can't find the toy anyway. They're all sold out. Everything just took off and you can't find them anywhere. The Olympic stores, the official Olympic stores sold out. Less than a week into the, we just started on Friday, last Friday. We haven't even gone a week yet.

and they're all sold out. So that's all the rage. So if you could find one, you better grab it. It might be a collector's item. Who knows? It might be like the American doll. But some big, some funny news coming out of the Olympics to end the day with. We could try to smile. I don't know why ice is there.

BROCK GANELES (28:12.366)
I thought kids didn't need toys anymore. Tomorrow we'll talk about the guy who got like a silver medal but apologized to the girlfriend he cheated on as a part of the medal ceremony. Found that a little odd. The guy's trying hard to get her back. I mean, dude, you're oversharing. You're oversharing. I don't think he's getting it back.

MARK HAYES (28:24.778)
Yeah.

Yeah.

MARK HAYES (28:36.262)
You're too much. I'm apologizing in front of the world!

BROCK GANELES (28:42.062)
I don't think he's getting her back either. She's still pissed. hi Mark. always a pleasure. Okay, talk to you tomorrow. Will do. I'm going to Bill's. Can I still get a slice at Bill's?

MARK HAYES (28:45.292)
No, sound like it. All right, we'll get into that tomorrow. All right, buddy. Get home safe, get some pizza. Go buy a nap, please, get some pizza, man. You're not far away. Right up Route 6 there.

BROCK GANELES (29:05.996)
Alright, talk to you tomorrow.

BROCK GANELES (29:18.599)
am I back?

in my back in my back

loading?

BROCK GANELES (29:30.166)
Yeah, I'm here.

BROCK GANELES (29:37.528)
Can you hear me?