2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

Mark Hayes (00:01.006)
Alright, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Hey, Donald Trump in a Strait of Or Moose saga continues. He blew another MOU. What a joke that is. yeah, Jesus take the wheel. Also, four African American women, nine degrees and not one steady paycheck. The consent the continued assault of African American w women continues under the Trump.

Administration. Brock and Ellis joined be live from the lovely confines of the beautiful Hudson River Valley just north of New York City. Brock, let's get into it. Black and white here. Before we get to the Strait of Or Moose, how can the most educated portion of America be without a steady paycheck? Not one, not two, not three. This is four women. Headline in the Washington Post today. Four women, nine degrees, not a steady paycheck. Just tell me how that happens. I just, I really need to know.

Because right now it's it's it's been pissing me off, but as it continues to drag on, nobody's doing or saying anything about it.

Brock Ganeles (01:09.388)
The hiring managers are white. That's your answer. That's why black women, no matter how educated, are not getting hired, right? Why are there no black women coaches in the WNBA? Right? I mean, but let's we'll go back to the the most educated portion of the of the society. It's as simple as that. There's no pressure from anyone, any from any corner. This is why.

Mark Hayes (01:11.928)
Phew.

Mark Hayes (01:21.72)
Crazy.

Brock Ganeles (01:37.378)
The bullshit arguments about like reverse racism and affirmative action type of things have always been false because if you don't put a push behind corporate America, they're just gonna hire everyone that looks like themselves and the status quo remains in order. So that is what I believe the answer is. I was probably a a culprit.

Right. I'm not making myself out to be not culpable. I was a hiring manager in corporate America. I hired mostly white men, frankly, right, on Wall Street. to be honest, didn't have many black candidates. Because the education system, right, they didn't make it through, but I didn't make the extra effort, right? So unless the extra effort is being made, things roll along.

Mark Hayes (02:14.625)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Hayes (02:22.393)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (02:38.509)
As they were. There's no impetus for change, which is why DEI was so important. DEI fucked women and black people. So therefore, double whammy, black women, right? So why is no one saying anything about it?

Mark Hayes (02:49.783)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Hayes (02:56.875)
Yes. As leads. That part.

Brock Ganeles (03:01.441)
Maybe it does it well, corporate America's not gonna say anything about it 'cause they don't give a shit, right? They're just worried about the profitability and how the stock price is doing. why is the political class not talking about it?

You know, I think this probably gets back to why black women and black people in general feel that they're taken for granted. The Republican MAGA's not gonna talk about it. Right? She only got one side that's even gonna be willing to talk about it. MAGA thinks that MAGA thinks that they're the ones aggrieved that are getting screwed, right? Somehow they believe a party of white men believe that they're the ones that are aggrieved.

Mark Hayes (03:26.093)
No, not at all.

Mark Hayes (03:32.096)
And they're not.

Mark Hayes (03:37.121)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Hayes (03:44.608)
And need reparations. That's the funny part. Brock, riddle me this though. you know, we've talked ad nausea about you know why black people are on the sidelines. This is one of the reasons black people are on the sidelines. Do you like do you think black folks don't know that we're being hammered under the Trump administration? Look.

Brock Ganeles (03:45.645)
And you know.

You can't have equal opportunity, yeah.

Mark Hayes (04:13.975)
The it's the black families that have been on these food lines at these food banks, hustling up new careers. Some black folks are working jobs, right? If it's hard for experienced and skilled African American women with credentials to get degrees, what do you think's happening to college graduates? I'm talking about kids that have been out for four and five years now, who who took a job.

To get their career started, right? Isn't that what we all did? We took a job, you know, waiting to get that career booster. Right? Took you three, four, took me five, six to get going. Right? You know, I it's going to it's going to impact us generationally, right? Because what is this doing? This is causing us to lose homes, right? You think banks.

And the government is going to be sympathetic to us being behind on car and mortgage payments. So what happens now? We go into our savings. So what happens when we go into our savings? we have to borrow more. You you you don't pass on wealth when you're borrowing more. And it's gonna be more difficult to borrow more because you don't have anything to borrow against.

Well, you don't have any assets, they look at you and say, Well, we'll see. We're not gonna be able to help you today, but maybe if you come back after you get a job. you're back, you got a job? no, you you you haven't had that job long enough to show us the amount of income we need to see in order to if but if you come back in a year or two, it's only been a year or two? Yeah, we don't know if this situation is stable enough for you.

We're not gonna be able to help you today. But maybe after five years. So, Brock, they're throwing us back on the cycle. Again, this isn't Donald Trump. This isn't a Pete Heg Seth. This isn't a Steve Bannon. This is those diabolical motherfuckers at the Heritage Foundation who said this is how we fuck them over for years to come. Right? All day.

Brock Ganeles (06:30.891)
Yeah, this is Project 2025. This is the blueprint. What this also ties into, like, we're like a year away from this now. But let's look back. Trump, let's look back at what a fraud Doji was. What a fucking fraud Doji was. You put a racist South African fucking Nazi, gave him the keys.

Mark Hayes (06:49.301)
Mm.

Right.

Brock Ganeles (07:00.385)
To the government, brought him inside. How did he get there? Because he paid his way there, right? He campaigned contributed his way to that seat. So now you have this raced apart racist apartheid South African coming in under the auspices of rooting out fraud, which was always bullshit. And what did he do? A took away foreign aid, many of which went to African American countries, so he killed kids around the world.

Mark Hayes (07:01.898)
Uh-huh.

Mark Hayes (07:06.348)
Right. Yep.

Mark Hayes (07:18.061)
Hmm.

Brock Ganeles (07:29.911)
But what did he do domestically? He fired a whole bunch of black people out of the government jobs because what was the one aspect of the job market that was required to hire fairly and equally was the government. Stripped tons of African American women in particular out of those jobs under the heading of rooting out fraud.

Mark Hayes (07:45.812)
The US. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (07:58.624)
And to save the government money. And look where we are today. Deficit is through the roof. All that money we saved, we've spent more than that on a fucking ballroom and fixing a reflecting pool and having a UFC fight. It was all horseshit. No one in MAGA world gave a shit about saving money. It was all a smoke screen to reorient the economics of America. So

Mark Hayes (07:59.126)
And waste. Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (08:27.873)
Doji was a fraud. Doji was a racist, a racist regime put in place to negatively impact the economic situation of minorities and women. And we rolled with it. America fucking rolled with it. Bamboozled or didn't care enough to stop it. That was the first six months of Trump's regime. First six months of us.

Mark Hayes (08:43.883)
Yep. Yep.

Mark Hayes (08:49.854)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (08:56.865)
Podcasting. But now we're eighteen months into this regime and we know exactly what the fuck they're all about and what they're doing. And it started of course it started, you know, at it really started with the beginning of the country. But right in the Trump era, right, it's the doji was the first thing he put in place.

Mark Hayes (09:16.545)
Yep, first thing. It was it was item number one because the groundwork had already been laid by Project 2025. Hey, hey, get somebody else to do it. Let's come up with a a government accountability type of task force. Let's workshop this. Hey, Elon will do it. He manages an amazing trillion dollar company and conglomerate.

He can find all the ways for us. and plus he hates them anyway. He's an apartheid child. Fuck.

Brock Ganeles (09:50.038)
And the hill and and Musk was willing to do it because he's yeah, I'm gonna get all this data on every American. But boy am I gonna boy is this gonna be valuable, my business is down the road. So that's that I mean, right there the assault, the direct assault on African American women began and America sat back and we accepted it. 18 months later, we always said push it so far.

Mark Hayes (09:59.864)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (10:11.766)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (10:18.807)
Further you push it, the further the pendulum swings back. And I'm a little astounded that that there's any political analysts who are surprised that there's no fucking middle anymore. We're swinging all the way back, and they wonder why the Democratic Party is enamored. Rank and file like me are enamored with democratic socialists. Because they're putting policies in place that actually help people.

Mark Hayes (10:38.827)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (10:45.089)
You may have seen the videos of Mandani going to a bunch of housing projects with cakes and cutting the cake for the rent freeze and all the people that are positively impacted by that. Who's impacted by it? The lowest people on the economic strata.

Mark Hayes (10:55.116)
Yes.

Mark Hayes (11:00.501)
Hmm. Let's see. Exactly. And Brock, and now who are those people coming back to that very same existence? Those who fought tooth and nail to get out of those opportunities, to fight their way out of the house housing projects, to get themselves a better life. weren't these the same people? The narrat that the the the narrative in the media was they don't work hard, they want handouts.

Right? But but but now you've cut us, you know, from the opportunities for success. Not only, Brock. See that there the this attack is not just onefold cutting out people with jobs. Of course, we're trying to take away money from the HBCUs. Right? Look at what Florida AM University did. You know, one of the most storied African-American bastions of excellence when it comes to academics.

Right, we've got a whole television studio on campus where a whole with a black news network ran out of. Okay? There are great opportunities. Florida AM puts out, I think, more pharmacists than any other HBCUs with graduate degrees. Florida AM is doing the damn thing. You know what they did? They went and got nine or ten black MAGA folks to run the board. And I th and I'm don't misquote me, but I believe.

The pharmacy school had its accreditation removed under the watch of these black MAGA people like the Wesley Hunts and Byron Donalds of the world. You know, this is all on Ron DeSantis' watch, right? So it's not only now, it's in the future too, right? It's it's that two-phazed assault that they're coming. Let's get them now. Let's get them where they live now in the US government where they were forced to be there, right?

Brock Ganeles (12:42.338)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (12:56.671)
And then let's keep from being qualified enough to ever get back.

Brock Ganeles (13:03.767)
Cut the jobs, cut the secondary education opportunities, starve the public schools, and fund those vouchers so the Christian white kids can get subsidized to go to their own schools on the side, and it works its way all the way through. We have a racist regime, and that's why the Democratic Party is being pulled.

Mark Hayes (13:19.948)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (13:30.594)
kicking and screaming to the left because for one, the base, you can tell me where black people stand, but it looks to me like more and more white people are are are just having the the simple question, is health care a fundamental right? If your answer is yes, then why isn't your government doing something about it?

Mark Hayes (13:53.6)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (13:54.152)
Is housing a fundamental right? If your answer is yes, then why isn't your government doing something about it? If your answer is no, okay, let's argue that. Or you're probably MAGA. But if you But if your answer is yes, then

Mark Hayes (14:07.042)
Well

Brock Ganeles (14:10.731)
Then you then the days of saying, our government can't handle a problem that big are kinda over. Cause Obamacare, ACA was was solving the health care issue. It was giving access to so many more people, and now that's in decline, right? Three million people came off the ACA rolls in the first six months of this year because the subsidies were pulled away. So we're fucking people on health care. We're fucking people fucking people on housing, fucking people on education. So that's why

Mark Hayes (14:30.955)
Right. Right. And not following the story. We're not following the story in the

Brock Ganeles (14:40.895)
The Democratic Party has been blown up and now it's we're just waiting for the fallout because the policies are all moving left. The momentum is way too far to the left. I'll throw one other thing in the in the mix. How do you how do a bunch of people in Kansas Lawrence, Kansas, spend a month welcoming Algerian nationals into their homes like cousins?

Mark Hayes (15:09.302)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Ganeles (15:10.943)
And then turn around and hang on to their racism in the same way that they had it a month ago. Maybe they can. Maybe they can. Maybe they'll be like, we like them as visitors, but we don't want them as neighbors. So it was okay for the visit, but it's time for them to go home. Maybe that's the way Red America is gonna come back from this World Cup Kumbaya experience. But maybe not. Maybe some of them are actually gonna be a little bit changed.

Mark Hayes (15:35.957)
Oof. That's

Brock Ganeles (15:40.723)
about how they feel about the multiculturism in their own society after basically honoring it for six weeks to two months.

Mark Hayes (15:40.833)
Right.

Mark Hayes (15:51.477)
Right.

Right. Brock, I said this in my my TEDx. I did a TEDx a few years back. And toward the end of my TEDx I said, you know, Saturday afternoon in a college football stadium can't be the only time that we cheer for African American men. It just can't be. It can't be. We we we need to be a better society than that. And we could talk about the diversity in the World Cup as well.

But for us here at home, we've got to be better than that. You know, top ten, but we'll get to that in our in our quick picks. But you know, you mentioned healthcare. The narrative is not being followed in the media. You know, you mentioned we talked about these jobs. This, this now, this story came from the Washington Post, right? Four women, nine degrees and not a steady paycheck. I'm surprised Bezos let it slide. He must be.

You know, in the south of France and unreachable by phone or facts. Brock, the media has let us down. I'm starting to believe that maybe, maybe there are some folks on the blue side who are okay with the status quo. And maybe there's a hint of racism that might be driving some of their decisions. Maybe that's why they're not pushing hard enough to get us to the left.

Where we w what did we what did we say the other night? The the the party leadership is not where the party is. The party's over here. The leadership's way over here. And we like we said, fuck that guy at the diner in Iowa. No one gives a shit about him. He's probably voted, he's probably triple Trumped.

Brock Ganeles (17:44.686)
You know, I don't think the current Democratic Party leadership is the leadership anymore. I think they're the people occupying the seats. But I think they've already they've already lost the rank and file. No one's fucking listening to Hakeem Jeffries right now. No one's listening to Chuck Schumer right now. No one gives a shit what Ken Martin has to say right now. They're looking at what went on in New York. They're looking back to the message that Bernie and fucking AOC have been pounding.

Mark Hayes (17:48.971)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (18:10.453)
And Elizabeth Warren types have been pounding on for years and one and and seeing in New York actual change, the joy of the city, and going, why is this not being replicated in more places? And for all the the people that came out and you know told the Democratic Socialists to leave the party, I think that was such a losing message that they've basically lost their voice.

Forever in the party. I don't think there's any coming back from the statements that Carville made and Carville, because he's an old white guy, he'll still get a voice. Jamie Harrison, why why is that your stance, Jamie Harrison? Why? Why why? Why do you believe like why why aren't you on board with the policies of Mandani? Like

Mark Hayes (18:43.809)
I don't know how you could.

Mark Hayes (18:57.036)
You tell me.

Mark Hayes (19:02.123)
Well, well, Brock, let me clue you in here. And and you may never notice this in a month of Sundays, but it's very similar to what Byron Donald's, Wesley Hunt, who's your boy? Ben Carson and and and that ilk have done with MAGA. Jamie Harrison, you know, has probably done the same thing with the Democratic Party, gone along to get along.

Brock Ganeles (19:32.098)
Yeah, Tim Scott. So he's South Carolina, Jamie Harrison's South Carolina. Why is Jamie Harrison's stance so close to Tim Scott's? Like, why how is he not possibly on board with the policies of Mamdani? Like he can't see that that's good for 99% of New Yorkers? He doesn't see that vision. Like he's against the rent freeze? What what is he? Jamie Harrison from South Carolina, pro New York City landlord? Why?

Mark Hayes (19:32.981)
And scattered center. Yes. Yep.

Sound like Jim Scott. Yeah.

Mark Hayes (20:00.438)
Right. Makes no sense. Make see Brock, if a couple of Yahoos with screaming capability are unpacking this, why isn't our national news media? Where's where's six where's Leslie Stahl? Where where where are these people who are supposed to be advocating for the little guy we don't do that anymore in the media.

Brock Ganeles (20:01.067)
Why would he be?

Brock Ganeles (20:12.407)
They don't

Brock Ganeles (20:20.215)
We don't do that anymore. They're all managed by the one percenters. Like our media is lost right now. We're we're gonna have to re we're gonna have to rebuild a new media. Maybe it's happening behind the scenes. I mean, maybe it's the Midas Touches, maybe it's Joy Reed, Don Lemon, s you know, soon to be like Scott Pelly and Jim Acosta and all Katie Fang, all these people that have been, you know, expunged from the mainstream media out on their own.

And the more the eyeballs shift, the more the message shifts. It's doable. I think it's doable. I mean, look at the way the World Cup just social media has dominated the zeitgeist of the country. No one's gonna watch 60 Minutes Tonight. Who the fuck is gonna watch 60 Minutes Tonight? I mean, I mean, it's it's gone. It's dead. They killed it.

Mark Hayes (20:55.617)
Yep.

Mark Hayes (21:05.93)
Yep.

Mark Hayes (21:12.607)
E exactly. Nobody in their right mind.

Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, why Leslie Stall is Leslie Stahl still there? I don't even know. Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (21:19.447)
They absolutely they absolutely killed it.

Why'd she stay? What what what does she really believe? Well, like what you what are you hanging on for? You could have made you could have made a statement. I guess you want the airtime, you want the job, you still want to keep yourself busy. But you but every report you do has to be approved by Barry Weiss slash David Ellison slash the White House. Come on, what are you doing? That's the journalism, that's that's the mark that you wanna make? Seventy five years into your fucking career, and that's that's the concessions you're willing to make?

Mark Hayes (21:28.855)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (21:42.495)
Right. Get get get yourself.

Right.

Yeah, right.

Brock Ganeles (21:52.876)
Doesn't make any sense to me. Makes zero Yeah. Makes zero sense.

Mark Hayes (21:54.734)
Right. You're a hundred and six years old. Your pension is safe. You know, you've actually got a pension, right? You you got that job in the seventies, right? When they were still giving out pensions. We don't give those out anymore.

Brock Ganeles (22:07.029)
Mark, going back to where you the beginning where you talked about black women and basically getting screwed by American, you know, economic decision making right now. Is your sense in the black community that it's become way more outspoken and way more confrontational?

Mark Hayes (22:29.409)
absolutely.

Brock Ganeles (22:30.017)
That's my read, 'cause that's my read. That's what I'm seeing on my feed. That the days of stay like there is no staying quiet, that they're the voices are getting louder and the acceptance of fuckery is almost at a at a zero. Yeah.

Mark Hayes (22:32.381)
Absolutely.

Mark Hayes (22:40.727)
Right.

Mark Hayes (22:47.019)
Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah, if you're if you're with the fuckery, you're out here with the shits, we're not fucking with you. And that's what you saw in New York. And you're gonna see a lot more of it. you know, these these mayors and these folks around these urban areas, you better get your shit together. You better find out where people are. You better find out what they need and start working toward that. Because if you're not, we're gonna let you skedaddle.

And we're gonna put somebody in there that will, right? Because Donald Trump can only seize so many ballot boxes, right? Before before America and white because there are gonna be some white people votes in there too. You know, white America's not gonna tolerate getting well, I don't know. Will they tolerate getting their their ballot box seized from their precinct if if they can still have their racism?

Brock Ganeles (23:43.478)
A a a good portion of white America will definitely g give up the convenience of voting to further racism, but there's a whole lot of white people that don't want you fucking with their fundamental rights because we do not expect and tolerate anything getting taken away from us. You know, g put me in that camp where like zero tolerance for anyone f thinking about fucking around with my vote. But it's clearly Trump's strategy 'cause they but Magasi's the writing on the wall.

Mark Hayes (24:01.335)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (24:12.363)
Right, they see that they're gonna get smoked if they don't massively suppress the vote. So they're only gonna ramp up their efforts. I mean, Trump won't even sign that fucking housing bill because Senate won't pass that SAVE Act, which basically, you know and it ain't getting passed. So there's just enough white holdouts.

Mark Hayes (24:17.325)
Right.

Mark Hayes (24:26.859)
Right. Right. And it ain't getting passed. Because too many of those guys know. Yeah, these guys know. Hey Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (24:36.301)
Yeah, it's a bridge too far. That they can't they'll never win again. They're starting to realize Trump ain't gonna be around forever. A guy looks like he could die any day. And they can't keep they all you know, a handful of them are like, wow, we can't keep making every decision to please Trump because he's gonna be gone and we're gonna be out of a job. So there are at least a handful of them, like even Susan Collins is is voting against Trump on some things because she knows that those main voters

Mark Hayes (24:43.499)
Any day.

Mark Hayes (24:53.815)
Yep.

Mark Hayes (25:03.789)
They're not going for night.

Brock Ganeles (25:03.915)
Got a got an option in Grand Platinum. Not a perfect one, but an option in Grand Platinum and she's on the ropes. So, I mean, that's the kind of pressure it has to go on.

Mark Hayes (25:07.244)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (25:11.307)
Yep. And you know and and and and and if you think about it, Brock, like

You know, th th the Trumpster is literally on his way out. He's not getting a third term legally. There's not going to be an amendment added to the Constitution to give this moron a third term. You know, like you said, the Grim Reaper is circling the beltway, waiting for a good opportunity to go straight to the White House. Maybe hopefully he can hit, you know, Georgia Avenue exit off of off of, you know, the beltway and take it straight down.

into the nation's capital right down to the White House at 1600 Pennsylvania. But you know, nonetheless, you know, again, these politicians need to start understanding and hearing. You know who I like and who is an amazing follow when it comes to the accountability factor? Gary Chambers out in Louisiana. He is a rabble rouser out there and he's making things happen. Keep an eye on him, Brock. He's a real problem for

Brock Ganeles (26:16.971)
I don't I don't know him at all.

Mark Hayes (26:19.957)
He's a real problem for Republicans in Louisiana. Just check out his feed. Every other day he is putting Gary Chamber putting belt to ass out there in Louisiana.

Brock Ganeles (26:25.503)
Okay. Gary Chambers? Gary Chambers. Okay. I'm missing that one.

Brock Ganeles (26:35.339)
The reason I got on that point of the of black voices being more contentious, maybe is like my feed is like between Roland Martin and D. L. Hugley and Tabitha Speaks and Re what's her name? Reese Colbert? She's she's in f yeah, she's on fire every single day. she's a great f she's a great follow.

Mark Hayes (26:45.231)
yeah.

Oof.

Mark Hayes (26:51.099)
Reese Colbert pulls no punches.

Mark Hayes (26:56.671)
And hey, if you don't like her cussing if you don't like her cussing, call into the show and tell her you don't like her cussing and she'll cuss you out.

Brock Ganeles (27:06.973)
And it just feels like, you know, and then like there's the native, what is it, native Lampod? Was Angela Ryan and like I g there's just a a growing sense of a of a I think an under and I'm talking for the black community now and you tell me if I'm right or wrong. This is my observations of a sense of the the influence and power of the black vote because it's because they wanna take it away. Well it must be important if if it's something they wanna they wanna restrict.

Mark Hayes (27:12.407)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (27:17.035)
Mel Hill.

Brock Ganeles (27:36.492)
the lack of like they just you know, the the there was a straw that broke the camel's back somewhere along the way with the Democratic Party. So just we're not going maybe it was comma losing. We're just not rolling along because it's the lesser of two evils, like we need some fucking changes type of mentality that I think is a shaking up the party.

And they're not necessarily on board with Mundami cause it's almost like these two things are going on somewhat separately because what's going on in New York City is a similar undertone policy wise, but coming from like a different looking person. I think they're all gonna meet in the end, and it's gonna be really powerful. I don't think they've necessarily met yet. Cause Mandani's like pissed off Letitia James, like he's

Mark Hayes (28:07.063)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (28:28.587)
He's really upset the Apple cart. Anyone who's ridden a wave of status quo and had success, he's shaken the earth underneath. So and so

Mark Hayes (28:40.001)
Yeah. And that's what that's what needs to be done, bro. We are at that point. We are we are beyond break glass. We are beyond break glass.

Brock Ganeles (28:47.789)
We're definitively out that at that point. We're absolutely at arguably beyond that point. Yeah, hit me with something.

Mark Hayes (28:51.169)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (28:55.853)
All right, you got time for a quick hit or no? All right. the top ten NBA draft picks. Right? Largely of color? Largely from two parent households. All from two parent households. Ten NBA draft picks from two parent households. Now, we're not hearing about this in

Brock Ganeles (29:15.309)
Where the c

Were the top ten all black?

Mark Hayes (29:21.247)
Yeah, well the top ten black picks. Let me say it that way. And so

Brock Ganeles (29:25.389)
But were the top ten picks all black? I feel like they might have been. I'm tr I'm trying to think of the who the first white guy was. I think the big guy from Michigan. I think he went twelfth or thirteenth.

Mark Hayes (29:28.481)
I feel like they were.

Mark Hayes (29:35.028)
Right. Right. But yeah, so the narrative is, you know, that all these black players are coming from broken homes and single family home. No, that's not that's not what it is. Brock, you you know how hard it would be to make the NBA for a single parent? For her to come up with the resources that it takes to travel to these camps and AAU tournaments? Yeah. I mean, you gotta have a second person around just to give you a break.

Brock Ganeles (29:58.091)
the A U and all that?

Brock Ganeles (30:04.141)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Hayes (30:04.385)
Geez. Because if you don't, if if you've got a 17-year-old kid and you're not 25, how are you gonna handle all these weekends on the road? Right? You need another adult, you know, to cart little Johnny to all this stuff that's going on. And and to be able to afford the AAU money grab structure that it is and has become. It's it's a billion-dollar industry.

It's the sneaker industry, it's and and it's the pipeline straight into the NBA, of which is shrinking regularly because we put so much emphasis on the money as opposed to the actual development of players. What do you got for me?

Brock Ganeles (30:48.951)
So you're saying I wanna stay on this topic for a second. So first of all, were were many of the any of those players mixed race?

Mark Hayes (30:55.861)
Mm.

Brock Ganeles (30:56.829)
seeing more and more mixed race athletes just kinda kinda everywhere. We're seeing like the blended family of a of of America.

Mark Hayes (30:59.67)
Yes, we are.

Mark Hayes (31:05.522)
Absolutely. So I'm sure some of them are.

Brock Ganeles (31:07.201)
You know, it's just interesting. Sports just becomes a microcosm. You know, it just gives us a window n in in essence into what's going on. So hm.

Mark Hayes (31:14.807)
Right.

I mean, look at look at the top players in the league right now. You know, Matt, Klay Thompson, a lot of mixed race players that are coming into the league. And, you know, they are definitely having an impact. And, you know, Brock, it really shouldn't matter. Right? It really shouldn't matter.

Brock Ganeles (31:39.573)
It shouldn't matter, and I'm just wondering.

shit. Maybe maybe I'm overstating the power of sports and the power of you know World Cup and all this that that it that it's actually gonna have a some kind of shift in the mindset of America, at least some Americans, not the ones that are too far gone to ever recover, but at least some Americans are gonna have come off loving a Knicks team that had

all kinds of black and d and Latin America, Dominican, Jamaican, Puerto Rican players as being the blueprint for what a team should be all about. The qualities that it takes for success. And then to the World Cup team, which is an absolute, once again, melting pot amalgamum of every aspect of American life while we welcome the world.

Mark Hayes (32:24.737)
Right.

Mark Hayes (32:29.184)
Right.

Mark Hayes (32:41.57)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (32:42.839)
Does America just come away from all this s deluge of feel good sports stories and not?

Mark Hayes (32:51.671)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (32:52.747)
be changed in any way, shape, or form. I just find it impossible to believe because I see how the sports world is seeping its way into the political world in terms of the values that people are talking about and the expectations that people are talking about and the camaraderie that people are embracing in this crazy moment of American life. I don't I'm a white guy.

Mark Hayes (33:05.707)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mark Hayes (33:18.348)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (33:22.025)
Maybe I'm just optimistic that this is going to generate and trigger some change. Do you think that that's possible?

Mark Hayes (33:33.282)
I think it is possible. but again, Brock, the change really has to come at the top, right? You can't you can't have a James Dolan inviting a Donald Trump and expecting there to be real change. You can't have Adam Silver cheering for you know the presence of Donald Trump, right? Because that that just signifies a kind of tone death.

Tone deafness that's really frustrating, right? and then when you look at the NFL again, all the owners, all all the leadership, you know, and racism. Yeah, we'll put it in the end zone. I guess. What could it hurt? Nobody will see it anyway. I mean, look, they're still asking NFL prospects at the combine. Hey, is your mom still on crack cocaine?

You know, the the the the you know preconceived notions and stereotypes with with which the NFL, you know, brass operates is so chrom it's I mean it's it's it's not even reconstruction. It's chromagnon, period. I mean, come on. You know, the c the kinds of perceptions that they have about the black athlete, you know, and you want people wondered why, you know,

Brock Ganeles (34:32.139)
Wow.

Mark Hayes (35:01.985)
Colin Kaepernick, you know, created that series for Netflix, you know, and depicted the black athlete in in the same vein as the old the old slave trade when they put him up on the on the trade on the slave block and you know turn him around, you know, put stick a stick in his mouth, see what his gums look like, you know, poke him and prod him, see how much pain he can take. Look at his muscle structure. You know, how is he good for breeding?

And people wonder why. So th I th I just feel like there has to be change at the top.

Brock Ganeles (35:38.414)
There has to be changes up, but the change can also come from the bottom. That's why the Knicks have to refuse the invite. Cause that that embarrasses Dolan. And that lets Dolan know, hey dude, you own this shit, but you don't own us. And you don't own the narrative. And you don't own society. Like we triggered the society. We lit this city on fire. Not you. Thank you for the paychecks. Got it. You you were born into this ownership position. You didn't earn shit.

Mark Hayes (35:51.083)
Right. Right. And we ain't coming.

Mark Hayes (35:59.554)
Right. Not you.

Mark Hayes (36:06.687)
Right. no, fuck him. They they made three hundred and ninety-seven million dollars in their stock price rather shot through the roof.

Brock Ganeles (36:08.812)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (36:14.893)
But when he's embarrassed and the players make that statement that it embarrasses David Silver and he looks like a chump. And then then in the future him or the other David Silvers have to question what they're gonna say in that moment.

Mark Hayes (36:20.097)
Yes. Yep. So fuck them all.

Mark Hayes (36:32.129)
Hmm. Yep. Yep.

Brock Ganeles (36:34.753)
Because he's he's he's tarnished right now. He's tarnished.

Mark Hayes (36:37.537)
Yep. 'Cause David Silver doesn't have to take Donald Trump's phone call. Send him a voicemail.

Brock Ganeles (36:42.645)
No, and he didn't have to say that. He barely had to say fucking anything. He could have just rolled past it. Right? the president's here. Great. He's another he's another basketball fan. Every basketball fan in the world wants to be here. Done. Move on. He's not he's not a story.

Mark Hayes (36:47.841)
Yep. Yep. Another fan. Yeah. But Shaq, but Shaq, you got on a great suit, my friend. I love that look. Wow, it just works for me. Could have rolled right past it. But they chose not to. They chose to embrace the fuckery.

Brock Ganeles (37:04.375)
Chose not to. And we're gonna need to change our leadership. And we from the bottom are gonna need to pressure people that have the forum to make decisions, which is gonna go back to where we started, which is how black women are getting screwed, and when the pendulum swings back and we get into positions of power again, we're gonna put in place DEI times fucking 10. Like

Mark Hayes (37:32.02)
And right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (37:33.867)
Real fucking not symbolic fucking programs. Like real fucking mandated programs. Not NFL Rooney rule you have to fucking fake like you're interviewing a black candidate and then go hiring a white guy. Like real fucking mandates. And it can be done and it will only get done if politicians are pressured into it.

Mark Hayes (37:46.379)
You must, yeah.

Mark Hayes (38:01.973)
Right, because don't tell me racism doesn't exist anymore. And that's gonna do it for our show today, folks.

Brock Ganeles (38:09.303)
We'll end it there. We'll pick up on again this one this point in the future. Mark, always a pleasure. We'll keep up the fight.

Mark Hayes (38:09.333)
Revolution.

Mark Hayes (38:13.447)
Absolute revolution.

Brock Ganeles (38:17.847)
Speak you tomorrow.

Mark Hayes (38:19.166)
Asta Maniana