2 Men In Black and White: An Honest Conversation

Mark Hayes (00:00.942)
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting edition, Two Men in Black and White. After his Supreme Court loss, President Trump is now calling on Congress to pass a law banning birthright citizenship. It ain't gonna happen, folks. It ain't gonna happen. In my estimation, this is all Project 2025 stuff. Right? Trump doesn't understand. He doesn't even know what the 14th Amendment is, right? This is all stuff that's being

Slid onto his desk saying, Okay, you did number 18. This is item number 19. He's just following a playbook that's being handed to him by someone over his shoulder. He has no idea what it is. You know, these these notices are coming out, these press releases. It has nothing to do with Donald Trump and his thinking, because he's not smart enough. This is all a white supremacist movement by a group of diabolical individuals.

Ready to make America a whites only nation. And they'll stop at nothing, including stealing the midterm elections. Because as we mentioned at our pre-production meeting, I feel like the Republican Party, aka MAGA, aka White Supremacists have two options. They can either take the ass whooping or steal the election. Those are their only two choices. And they're not gonna take the ass whooping. Brock and Ellis joins me now live from the beautiful confines of

The upper Hudson River Valley, just north of New York City. Brock, what say you, my friend? I don't think they have any choices. I don't think President Trump is doing any of this. major loss at the Supreme Court. 6'3. and it's one of his signature initiatives, allegedly. This guy's on death's doorstep. He doesn't know what the hell's going on.

Brock Ganeles (01:50.399)
Yeah, Trump doesn't really know the policy. It just fits just the the the Project 2025 guys behind him just know that he's racist so they can play into, hey, you know, this is just gonna get rid of these, you know, people who don't quote deserve to be there. And then they also tell him that this is gonna help you win your next election. Even though we don't think he's running for president again. He thinks he's running for president again. He's not stepping aside.

Mark Hayes (01:53.197)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (02:20.234)
He's gonna expect you think he's just asking Congress to make a new law for birthright citizenship. He's gonna be pushing Congress or just ignoring Congress in terms of saying that he's allowed to run for a third term because he got, quote, cheated out of a term or they weren't consecutive terms. Like in his mind he's definitely running again. So all project twenty twenty five has to say is like this is gonna help you stay in power.

Mark Hayes (02:28.696)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (02:48.072)
And then they do all the work behind him and he just touts these policies. But he does he's not a policy won. Come on, the guy's barely awake, right? He's just a hardcore racist, so it's easy for them to manipulate him and have him out front cheerleading. They're very sophisticated and smart and diabolical methods of reorienting the way America works.

Mark Hayes (02:48.161)
Right.

Mark Hayes (02:56.982)
Right.

Mark Hayes (03:18.132)
Right. Brock, at what point do we realize that the whole MAGA movement is full of shit? Right? They talk about protecting children, right? But, you know, they they they won't pr let women. They first of all, you you you're elected a pedophile, but you talk about protecting children. Right? You know, come on, you call yourself a Christian, you're in a you're you're an evangelical, but you don't want black and brown people around you. Right? You're racist as fuck.

Alright, you you call yourselves up for law and order, but you were okay with 2,000 people storming the Caminal Capitol, beating the shit out of police officers and smearing shit on the walls with their hands, by the way. That makes it worse to me. That they were using their hands. anyway, brah, the the whole movement is full of shit. Why do we why the why does the the media keep trying to push a narrative on us that this is about something other than white supremacy?

We at its basic function, this is all about creating a wider America. And and a less inclusive America.

Brock Ganeles (04:26.816)
Yeah, that's still Yeah. I mean, just the use of the word conservative. Like the what does does that term even have a meaning anymore? In theory, conservative was more like originalists, those that really just truly believed in the Constitution, but then they're gonna take cases to the Supreme Court to try to get birthright citizenship in essence

Banned or abolished, even though these are constitutional rights. So, like it's a reorientation of the constitution they're tr they're attempting through the courts versus through the legislative process, because there's no will for it to be done in the legislative process, because anyone who has to get elected can't just be ripping up the constitution in order to favor this white supremacy movement. But yeah, to answer the initial part of the question, I think most of us, many of us.

Approaching seventy percent now was fifty percent maybe back in November, recognize that MAGA is full of shit. The hypocrisy is so thick that it's it's hard to even catch. It I mean it's supposedly great economically. We slap the tariffs on and it fucks up the economy. It's supposed to be America first and not trying to play policeman to the world and non-interventionist, and we decide to, you know, start a war of choice in a

Mark Hayes (05:30.306)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (05:38.538)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (05:52.027)
Iran. Like there's no part of it that has any consistency. The only thing they they cling to all the time, all day, every day, is really the racism and the sense of a white superiority, a white male superiority on who should be running shit. And that's you know, Project 2025. I can't imagine there's any any color in the room at a Project 2025 team meeting.

Mark Hayes (06:09.656)
Right.

Right.

Mark Hayes (06:20.429)
Huh.

Brock Ganeles (06:20.751)
And I doubt there's any women in the room either.

Mark Hayes (06:23.874)
Well, you know, and the irony is that it's operating in a city in in what we used to call chocolate city when I lived in DC, right? Right around the corner from the Capitol is the Heritage Foundation. And that's where all this this diabolical shit takes place. That's where they wrote up their their mantra, their little dictum with the you know, manifesto, right? And and you're sitting in one of the blackest cities in the world, the District of Columbia. And that's what you fucking came up with?

Like think think about how disturbed you are when you walk out your workplace and you see black people to the left and black people to the right, and all you can think is how can I get rid of them? What the fuck is wrong with you? But that's what we're dealing with here. We are dealing with some really small-minded people who again have a you know, a zip code view of, you know, what what what the global

feeling should be, right? Because they've never left their zip codes. They don't go anywhere. They don't travel. They don't experience new things. I've been saying this for years. MAGA is fucking caught up in their own neighborhoods. Right? Remember all these MAGA fucking protests we thought they were all in their own neighborhoods. They didn't go anywhere else. Remember the remember the people holding the shotguns in Illinois in that little town outside of Chicago? You know, people holding guns while the

You know, Black Lives Matter people were walking. It's it's like what the fuck is wrong with you? Like you have no hu no no sense of, you know, compassion for your fellow man and your fellow American. And that's what was so good about the World Cup coming here. Because we some people, you know, giving a shit about their countrymen.

Brock Ganeles (08:09.717)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (08:14.964)
Yeah, and and Americans are being force fed multiculturalism. So it's kinda great. They're like it's it's coming to their neighborhoods. Just the people that maybe drive from Atlanta to Houston to go from one game to another, stopping in all these s small southern towns and give a dose of like cultural culture and, you know, globalism, right? They're they're kind of being teased into globalism. But to get back to your initial point of the of the people

Mark Hayes (08:20.012)
Yep.

Mark Hayes (08:36.695)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (08:40.914)
On K Street in Washington, DC, that hate everyone else in the city. It's really been a heritage fund plus federal society equals, in essence, MAGA movement, where they adopted Trump to just play the band leader to all this activity behind them. But because that's what's driven the Republican Party into MAGAism in the last 20 years, and the

Mark Hayes (08:52.141)
Right.

Mark Hayes (08:57.888)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (09:09.3)
They've just moved further and further to the extreme of the right, is why the Democratic Party is so shaken up right now. Because we as Democrats have in in in being a party of somewhat compromise, have kept getting pulled further and further to the right in order to placate or try to coerce.

Mark Hayes (09:19.523)
Right.

Mark Hayes (09:36.396)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (09:37.755)
some Republicans to come over and vote Democrat because we didn't believe we had enough numbers over here on the left. But because MAGA plus Federal Society plus Heritage Fund has taken America so far to the right is why we're having this massive pendulum swing to the left. And and Democratic Socialism slash progressive Democrats are just eating the lunch of traditional centrist corporate Democrats. Like

Mark Hayes (09:41.506)
The guy in the diner.

Brock Ganeles (10:07.53)
The Democratic Party is absolutely been transformed. And we just haven't seen the follow-through yet. But in terms of the rank and file voter, they want no part of current leadership. They want no part of the center. They didn't problem solvers. No part of the four guys in an Iowa Diner. No part of anything Ken Martin has to say. Like that party doesn't even exist anymore. And it feels like it happened overnight.

Mark Hayes (10:16.012)
Right.

Mark Hayes (10:30.701)
Zero.

Mark Hayes (10:35.746)
Yep. Yep. Well, you know, Brock, we look, when we saw what happened in New York, we're seeing it around the country. We're seeing the same sentiments. So if it if you want to call it, if you have to have a label for it, call it, you know, socialism. We don't give a shit. But if that's what, you know, universal health care is, I don't give a shit. You know, if that's what it takes for people to have a better quality of life, I don't give a shit. Right? But the party is over here and the leadership is still over there.

You know, and again, why do we have to move because you know, the Looney Tune right is way out there on Pluto.

Brock Ganeles (11:13.962)
Yeah, they got crazier, so we have to placate them and move closer to their ideas because they got crazier, more violent, more racist, more xenophobic, more s misogynistic, right? So we all have to move closer to that because because we have to play to the center. It you know, it's it was a losing strategy. Democrats lost. Ten we're ten years into Trump.

Mark Hayes (11:17.58)
Right.

Why?

Mark Hayes (11:29.794)
Closer. Right.

Brock Ganeles (11:41.749)
And we had four years of Biden, which I thought he was a good president. But Trump's unwound basically everything Biden did but the infrastructure bill, right? He couldn't unwind the paved roads and the b the rebuilt bridges, right? So like one thing got done. Other than that, everything Biden done has been thrown out the window in eighteen months. So it had no staying power. You know, it was almost like a s you know, a a true you know, another term of Trump or or a delay or like one of the halftime, halftime of the

Mark Hayes (11:47.563)
Everything.

Mark Hayes (11:53.132)
Right. Right.

Mark Hayes (12:01.024)
Right. Right.

Mark Hayes (12:12.768)
No doubt. And Brock, you know, the other the other just disgusting element of Trump two point and and why we keep moving to the center. What about the corruption? I mean, the corruption is the reason why we have to move to the center because so much money is being stolen and wasted and given away to the one percent.

That over here on the left, on our side, where we're saying, hey, can we spread out the wealth? Can we spread it around? Can we make tax policies that help us all instead of, you know, the 99%? Right? Towing the line for the 1%ers? What did Donald Trump pay in taxes $755? You know, that when they released this tax, what the fuck?

Right? Jeff Bezos has fifty million dollars for a wedding, but he can't pay taxes. Right? Fuckerberg has a hundred and seventy million for a new mansion in Florida, which is gonna be a summer home or second home or a third home or whatever the fuck it is. And we've gotta tell the line. Really? Elon Musk became a trillionaire and it's not enough money? I like

What are we doing? And we let apartheid boy.

Brock Ganeles (13:43.157)
Well, that money I mean, it's it's it's I mean it's it's a manufactured game, right? 'Cause that money's flowing to the one percent and the one percent are flowing that money right back to the MAGA party, right? That's why the that's why MAGA's gonna have a huge money advantage headed into the midterms and

Mark Hayes (14:01.655)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (14:02.792)
If you're a traditional thinker, like, well, whoever has the more money is gonna win. But they don't have the people. So they're gonna flood the TV stations with ads. They're gonna try to muck shit up with propaganda and twisting things around, but they're not gonna be able to put an army of operatives on the ground because they don't have the people. So we're gonna have to pro we, the left, the resistance, the progressive movement, democratic socialists are gonna have to prove.

Mark Hayes (14:07.574)
Mm.

Mark Hayes (14:23.159)
No.

Brock Ganeles (14:31.37)
that it's not which candidates have the most money that matters. It's who has the most support that matters. Because there's no way the left is gonna be able to match all this fundraising because corporations are

Mark Hayes (14:35.605)
Right.

Mark Hayes (14:39.864)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (14:47.028)
people according to Citizens United and with all those tax breaks it's just the kickback scheme. It's really what it's just a kickback scheme to political leaders. So we're really that's why the oligarchy is tied right in with the with MAGA and we have to view them all as adversaries.

Mark Hayes (14:48.109)
Yeah.

Mark Hayes (15:05.09)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (15:05.428)
And that's why what we can do is our own little our own little but collectively strong economic boycotts. Because know that every dollar you're putting in David Ellison, Larry Ellison's pocket, Bezos pocket, Zuckerberg's pocket, and on down the line, Koch Brothers, Fox, that money's just flowing back into the MAGA political machine. You're making a political donation to MAGA in spending your dollars that way. You have to think about it that way.

Mark Hayes (15:12.706)
That's what we gotta do.

Mark Hayes (15:26.498)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

yeah. It's frightening. and you know, Brock, I just feel like we've gotta continue the mojo, right? The Knicks mojo, the the World Cup mojo. We've we've gotta figure out a way to harness this energy and pour it into the midterms to get everybody out and say, Hey, you know, like again, you know, just when you point it out, you know, to a sitting congressperson.

How amazing the energy was with the World Cup, right? Those people need to stop and smell the flowers every now and then and figure out how happy America was enjoying other people coming to the Golden Corral. You guys have Golden Corral in New York? Have you been to one? It's a buffet. It's a buffet, breakfast buffet. People here, you know, you go there with the soccer team after a game.

Brock Ganeles (16:22.208)
Now now.

Mark Hayes (16:33.687)
Right. It's

Brock Ganeles (16:33.876)
Is it like waffle house?

Mark Hayes (16:36.972)
Yeah, but on steroids and you got all kinds of s but it's a buffet. You know, it's kinda like the country buffet. But it's it's Yes sir. Yes, sir. Who doesn't love a buffet, right?

Brock Ganeles (16:38.783)
Anyway.

Okay, got it. Got it. All you can eat all you can eat type of thing? god, who doesn't look who doesn't love that? When you're on a b when you're on a budget. You can get two meals in.

Mark Hayes (16:53.356)
Hey, all you gotta do is eat slow. but you know, we watched foreigners come and enjoy the golden corral, enjoy the Walmart experience, right? Enjoying some of the so much, and we talked about this before, so much that we take for granted, bruh. And, you know, we're blessed to have this stuff, right? Summer camp.

People enamored with the whole concept. You drop your kid off and you pick him up later. Right? Wait, so so brah, we we have got to be able to harness this energy, harness what the Knicks did, what Mandani did. That Mandani we should be playing that Mandani speech off the sides of built off the side of the Trump Tower from now until November 6th or what whatever the election day is. Until the following day.

Because that was one of the greatest, most unifying speeches that I've heard in many, many moons. You know, it was very Barackish, very MLKish, very Trinity-esque in terms of the unification message.

Brock Ganeles (18:03.91)
The the farm yeah. The foreign visitors the foreign visitors have have really made us proud again to be American. They because they've come here to tell us how great our country is from the littlest things and the things that we even laugh at about ourselves that they appreciate. The fact they're trying to smuggle ranch dressing home in their suitcases is just funny, right? And

Mark Hayes (18:27.086)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (18:30.346)
Combine that with someone like Mandani, Mandani's a great leader of the Democrat Socialist Movement because he's Muslim. It helps because the right wants to call him a terrorist. They do call him a terrorist. And they try to chip away at him with their xenophobia and their religious fears and all the games they play where everything is fear based.

Mark Hayes (18:39.111)
Okay.

Right. Right.

Brock Ganeles (18:57.258)
But the people are saying, no, he's actually looking out for us. Why should we be afraid of him? He's the guy that actually is doing things for the people. Maybe you're the one that I should be afraid of, not a guy like him. It's just flipping the it's it's flipping the narrative. There's a there's a mindset shift going on in America. And it's happened.

Mark Hayes (18:57.921)
Right.

Mark Hayes (19:05.112)
Right.

Mark Hayes (19:14.413)
Right.

Mark Hayes (19:22.315)
Yeah.

Brock Ganeles (19:24.33)
Pretty quickly. Well, maybe it took eighteen months of Trump, but it feels like it's happened fast. And media hasn't caught up to it. Most of us probably haven't even really caught up to it. You know, it maybe it's helped me being adjacent to New York City because so much of it has emanated from New York City. But Washington DC is gonna gonna elect a Democratic Socialist Mayor. So that's another big city.

Mark Hayes (19:30.747)
yeah.

Mark Hayes (19:42.646)
Right.

Brock Ganeles (19:52.065)
Moving in the progressive direction. I'm gonna expect a wave of cities that it's gonna be hard to win as a mayor of a major US city unless you're touting progressive policies. And we've talked we're gonna look at it closely today. If Colorado has some upsets, then the entire narrative changes because the Democratic centrists can't say this is just a New York thing.

Mark Hayes (19:52.172)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Hayes (20:05.109)
Exactly.

Brock Ganeles (20:22.334)
If democratic socialists will in Colorado, what's the counter argument?

Mark Hayes (20:22.626)
Right.

Mark Hayes (20:27.614)
Right. Right. Middle America. That's as middle as you get. I know they're on mountain time, but it's still middle America. Right next to Kansas. You go one state east and you're in Kansas again, Todo. So

Brock Ganeles (20:42.454)
Well, after Colorado, the big the next big one will be the Michigan Senate primary the Democratic Senate primary in Michigan, which has another really progressive candidate against some more middle of the road candidates. And it's a it's a knife fight.

Mark Hayes (20:50.71)
Right. Huge.

Mark Hayes (20:56.344)
Rob again, why why why is it considered progressive to want people to be able to have a better life, an affordable life, a healthy life. Other countries look at health as wealth. We look at it as a luxury where you have to have wealth in order to get a healthy, happy life. Well

What's wrong with that fucking picture? I don't get it. I I I just don't understand why it's so progressive for us to be able to want the right to have health care. Right? The right to be able to get a surgery that you need. Right? We got we got pe I mean, look, rich people are doing elective surgeries that are fifty, seventy five, a hundred thousand dollars.

Right. And we got people that need surgeries that can't get Right? Because because they can't afford it.

Brock Ganeles (22:00.427)
Yeah, it's a the haves and have not society. But look, we've been we argue against toxic capitalism, right? That American cop capitalism have has tipped over into the toxic category and that's what triggers the income inequality. That's what happens when you defang OSHA and you have no more work safety rules anymore. That's what happens when you allow for there to be really targeted efforts against uniz unionization.

So that you can keep the workers down when we still have the same minimum wage that's been there for like twenty years, because God forbid if you raise the minimum wage, it's gonna wipe out all these businesses. All these fraudulent arguments that allowed for attack toxic capitalism, including continued corporate tax cuts, when we know they've all been basically figuring out how to hide their dollars in foreign countries to where no one's been paying the full freight anyway.

Mark Hayes (22:30.633)
Right.

Right.

Brock Ganeles (22:59.072)
But Trump comes in and cuts them, right? So now the centrists will argue that socialism doesn't work. And it might it might not work at a societal level, but I think we've come to something the in between, the in between is gonna be capitalism with a side order of socialism.

Mark Hayes (22:59.134)
No.

Brock Ganeles (23:23.934)
And with all the money that we generate out of our tremendous capitalism that makes us the strongest economy in the world, we can implement a whole lot of programs around the sides of our capitalism. A, get the corruption out of it, but B make it much more fair where it's going to be better for workers, it's going to be better for quality of life, and we're going to force our corporations to be.

Бетер сошо ситисінс.

Be not because they wanna be, because we're gonna force them to be. So we won't hear stories about fucking data centers taking all the water from the community. Well that's capitalism, right? Hey, tough break. They bought the land, they built it there. Sorry. Shit didn't work out for you. So there's so many rules and regulations we can put put in place around our capitalism, still be the strongest economy in the world, but not

have so much poverty in our country. What's the point of being the richest country in the world if you have all this poverty, childhood hunger, and you're on a declining quality of life and a declining life expectancy?

Brock Ganeles (25:09.94)
Mark, I lost you for a second.

Brock Ganeles (25:36.342)
Alright, I think we're gonna have Mark Logg back in here. I think I lost him right as he was starting to talk about maternal birth rates. He did say that they have a dramatic heat dome going on there in the southeast that is apparently coming our way here in the northeast starting tomorrow, where we're gonna like at a hundred degrees for the next three days. So I don't know if it's sort of melted down his connectivity down there, but I'm gonna give him

minute or so to log back in and

Take it from there.